Suzie: Welcome to Sharing My Truth with Mel and Suzie. The uncensored version where we bear it all.

Mel: We do.

Suzie: 1, 2, 3, 4.

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Mel: Hey.

Suzie: And we'll see you there. He, babe.

Mel: Hello, darling. Darling, darling.

Suzie: How are you?

Mel: I'm fine. Fab, fab.

Suzie: Fine.

Mel: A little warmer. Everything's better.

Suzie: You're childless?

Mel: No, I still have a child.

Suzie: Oh, you still have one? One at home, yeah. You're the one left, so I'm back.

Mel: To the original position. Got it.

Suzie: It's a lot.

Mel: The university one.

Suzie: Older children.

Mel: It is, yeah. Generally, the amount of questions and the amount of funds. I am practically bankrupt. Nope. No, I'm joking.

Suzie: No, that's good.

Mel: Yeah. No, it's good.

Suzie: Proud of her.

Mel: I'm very proud of both of my beautiful girls.

Suzie: Oh, Mommy. Mel. I'm very proud. Well, speaking about sisters. No.

Mel: Yeah. This is like a very bizarre segue.

Suzie: Yeah. So sorry, I did not actually mean to do that, but we have a funny little story. Mel found this article in Slate and we're gonna just talk about the story that was written in to one of their writers and we have some opinions about.

Mel: Raises a lot of questions, which is why we're interested.

Suzie: It definitely raises a few questions and interests. So let's take a listen. Mel, it away.

Mel: Go on then. Okay. My sister found evidence of another woman spending time at her house with a husband. I'm terrified she'll uncover the whole truth.

Suzie: Yikes.

Mel: Here is the story.

My sister Selena and her husband Jake have an open marriage.

It isn't due to dysfunction in their relationship. They are both, let's call it adventurous. And they often bring home partners to one another that they include in threesomes and foursomes.

The trouble is that a week ago, Jake and I.

Oh, dear.

Was sitting around drinking at his and my sister's place and we ended up in bed together.

Once we sobered up, we both regretted it. We agreed it couldn't happen again, and I went Home.

Unfortunately, according to Jake, Selena got back not long after I left. Jake had forgotten to put away the liquor glasses we used.

She spotted my lipstick print on one of them and realized that Jake had had company.

Selena teased him about not waiting for her to join in and suggested they'd like.

She'd like for him to invite his new friend back so the three of them could be introduced properly. Obviously that's out of the question.

Even though my sister and Jake's marriage is open, I still feel terribly guilty over what happened and can't imagine this going over well.

Do we need to fess up or is this something we should keep our mouths shut about forever?

Yikes.

Yikes is right.

Suzie: Very interesting. Very interesting. So they have an open relationship.

Mel: Yeah.

Suzie: The guy obviously is at more fault than the sister, in my. In my opinion. But they have an open relationship.

Mel: Well, look, as somebody who knows nothing from personal experience about open relationships, but my first question would be, do you not have rules? I mean, surely if you have an open relationship.

From what I understand, most people have rules,

like, you know something like, you know, yes, you can do it, but I have to hear about it. Or, or it has to be in the home or whatever it is.

Some people have rules. Right? I would think sleeping with your ******* sister is not on the ******* rulebook.

Suzie: It is very weird because it's like, why were you over at their place? Your sister doesn't know you're over there.

So was this planned? Was it premeditated?

This is where my question is, right? Because it's like you were. You were over at their place, which I'm sure I'm assuming is like a normal thing.

Mel: Yeah.

Suzie: You were having wine with just him. Like you were over there with just him. This is where my question starts, right? She doesn't know you're over there, obviously.

Mel: Yeah.

Suzie: Yes, obviously she doesn't know you're over there.

Mel: So why the hell was she there drinking.

Suzie: Why were you there drinking wine with your. With your brother in law?

Mel: That's a very good question.

Suzie: That is where my brain goes. And like this was premeditated.

Mel: Yeah.

Suzie: And I don't think you should mess up.

Mel: No.

Suzie: Unless you want to ruin their relationship and your relationship with your sister. You can't tell anyone ever. Unless you get pregnant, but then you're gonna have an abortion.

Mel: Whole world but yeah. Well, obviously we don't know the names, but unless Selena reads this, obviously her name isn't Selena, but if she reads this, she's ****** gonna know, isn't she?

But I.

There Are so many issues here. Like the open relationship, for once, is not my issue.

Are you impressed?

Suzie: Wow, she's coming around. All my work is done. Yeah.

Mel: No, not. No, no, not at all.

Suzie: My work is not done. Got it.

Mel: But they have a mutually consensual open relationship.

Suzie: Yeah, it's an emf.

Mel: It's a what? It's monogamous. Oh, drop my glasses, Ethan.

Suzie: Ethically non monogamous.

Mel: That's it. Non monogamous enm.

Suzie: Did I say emf? Em. Emf. I don't know what EMF is. Someone can educate me on that. Way, way dubious. Yeah. Emf.

Mel: Yeah. And that you've decided that. So whatever anybody else thinks, that's none of their business. That's your choice. You live like that, you enjoy it. Fine. Great for you.

Fine with that. Actually for them, not for me. Let's get this straight,

Susie.

But yes, I think the girl. I think you're absolutely right. The girl being the sister being there is very dubious. And I saw this in a podcast recently.

It's an English personality. Well, actually she's Canadian, but she's an English. She's a comedian in the uk. She's very famous in the UK and not in Canada. Her name's Katherine Ryan and she was talking about cheating.

The reason I'm saying this is, is she said that she thinks she doesn't trust men, even though she's married, loves her husband. Is that men have the capacity, the ability to cheat at the drop of a hat.

Got it. Like, if a woman literally is shoving her whatever, in his face,

it's pretty hard for most men to resist. Totally. However. So any man is capable of it. And to a degree, I agree with that.

There's a real control in there. Whereas women, on the other hand,

it's premeditated. For the most part, it's premeditated. They've liked this guy for a long time. They've thought about it. Consciously or subconsciously, it's premeditated. And I actually think. I agree.

So I actually think she is way more to blame on a couple of levels because I actually think they're both bad. But that's another point I'll come to in a minute.

But this is her sister.

Do you have no shame?

This is your sister. I mean, for God's sake, why do you have to sleep with her husband?

And that obviously part of their,

you know, open marriage is the threesome foursome thing. So obviously you can't do that.

And so you have crossed the line there because that's. If that's the point of their relationship, is to bring other people in. Then you've crossed the line. You've broken the rules.

The man and the woman, the husband and the sister. But the husband, I mean,

come on.

Like,

that's my other problem with the husband is if you are in an open marriage, you are ******** lots of women.

Right. Why do you need to **** her?

Suzie: This is why I believe Shaggy.

Mel: Somebody else.

Suzie: He is more at fault than the sister is.

Mel: Well, I think they're both. He.

Suzie: I think they're both.

Mel: Obviously, they're both very difficult.

Suzie: He is the one who knows the rules of the relationship, whether they're ra or they're not.

Mel: And he can sleep with anybody he wants.

Suzie: He can sleep with anyone who wants.

Mel: I can sleep with her.

Suzie: He's obviously seduced the other sister.

Mel: Yeah.

Suzie: Because it was dirty mind games.

Mel: Yeah.

Suzie: And 100. I was premeditated because otherwise it would have been like, oh, hey, you're. By the way, your sister's coming over for a bit.

Mel: Yeah.

Suzie: We have some things we want to talk about without you for no reason.

Mel: Yeah, exactly.

Suzie: This was like 100. His fault.

Mel: It's. It's. It's just.

Suzie: And she. The sister is just stupidly got drunk and caught up in it. Obviously, she cares about her sister. Or if she didn't care about her, she would have told her.

She wouldn't have done it, obviously. But if you know what I mean. Like, she's so worried that, like, she's like, I don't know. I can't believe I just did this.

Mel: Well, don't do it.

Suzie: I mean. Yeah. I mean, people make stupid ******* mistakes.

Mel: They make stupid mistakes. But I think it shows two things. Obviously.

I mean, obviously they're both attracted to each other. That's stating the obvious. But obviously the sister is attracted to the husband. And the husband. This is what the problem with open marriages, I'll get to that point, is he's attracted to her sister.

And,

you know, that means he's not really kind of having an open marriage because he just wants to have other sexual experiences. He's attracted to other people.

And that means he could potentially walk off. I mean, it just, to me, opens up all sorts of problems. Does that make any sense to you, what I just said?

Yeah, I.

But it's bad. It's really,

really,

really.

Suzie: I mean, it's. Of course it's bad. And then also the other thing is that the woman,

the sister who slept with the husband is glossed over just, like, completely, like, oh, we Got drunk and we.

Yeah, and it's like there's a. That's a big jump, you know?

Mel: Yeah.

Suzie: I'm not everyone I'm drinking with.

Mel: Yeah.

Suzie: You know, you know.

Mel: Christ.

Suzie: You know what you're doing? Like, how drunk are you? How bad? How old are you too?

Mel: Exactly. Like, that's a very good point. Like, how drunk are you that basically we all know when you get drunk, you're inhibition.

Suzie: You must be blackout.

Mel: Exactly. You know exactly what you're doing.

Suzie: Even blackout. You know what you're doing.

Mel: You know what I mean? And you want this and you know what you're doing and you're just using it as an excuse. Totally, 100% using an excuse. And this is your sister and the man is.

I mean, what is wrong with you?

Like, you can sleep with anybody. You've now created a massive,

terrible ******* triangle. So now what are you gonna say to your wife? I mean, the only thing you can say is, oh, no, she.

She's out of town or she's left town or something.

Suzie: This is a very controversial question that I'm about to ask you.

Mel: Go on then.

Suzie: And I can foresee the answer.

Mel: Go on then.

Suzie: Obviously, it's incest. If she were to have a threesome with her sister.

Mel: It's not obvious. It ****** is incest. It's highly illegal and completely gross. Oh, my God. You're not actually.

Suzie: I'm just saying, like.

Mel: It'S a. It's illegal, Susie.

Suzie: Okay. Just like, you know, it's like they can get pregnant. That's why incest is illegal, though, is because of the repercussions of children.

Mel: Yeah. And it's gross.

Suzie: I mean, we're not going to talk about the new White Lotus because you haven't seen it. But.

Mel: No, I've only seen some of the first episode.

Suzie: You know, brothers do stupid things. Sisters also do stupid things.

Mel: I know that Incest is much more common than people think.

Suzie: Oh, for sure.

Mel: I think it's. It's. It's much more common. I don't have siblings, but I know it's much more common.

Suzie: I mean, I can't imagine having.

It's a weird thing, this two sister thing.

When you're in an open relationship, it's 100%. This is what I'm saying. It's the 100% the husband's fault. He ****** it up because he.

He understands the boundaries. The sister doesn't understand the boundaries. Maybe he's allowed to do this.

Mel: Yeah, but the sister's now using this as an excuse. She's going to say justify it to self. Well, they have an open marriage and so which is obviously she was attracted to him so she got a bit drunk so she went **** it.

They have an open marriage. Why can't I do this?

Because it's a really stupid thing to do. No. Yeah, I'm not. And it's going to forever cause problems because you are now gonna have to pretty much lie about this for the rest of your life.

Suzie: Oh, 100 family reunions are gonna be very weird.

Mel: God, Hope she doesn't get pregnant.

Suzie: I'm just assuming that she is going to sleep with him again.

Mel: Of course. I mean, come on, he's in her life. Of course he's gonna. Of course it's too easy.

Suzie: Especially because if a glass of wine is doing this to you, well, Jesus. Like Mel, we take our alcohol very seriously and we can drink quite a bit.

Mel: Quite a bit. And I don't ****** sleep with everyone.

Suzie: I don' Would take. For me to sleep with your husband or like my sister's husband.

Mel: Yeah.

Suzie: I do not know how much alcohol it would take for me to do that. Like.

Mel: Well, you wouldn't be able to function.

Suzie: I don't even think it would.

Mel: Like, so what would be the point?

Suzie: But that's what I'm saying. It's like, it's like this is. This is definitely going to happen again.

Mel: Of course it is.

Suzie: And it's like you obviously don't like respect your sister also.

Mel: Of course not. No, you don't respect your sister. You fancy the pants off your brother in law.

Suzie: You're obviously like jealous of their relationship.

Mel: I think a little bit possibly jealous of that. You've been obviously thinking about him and you maybe not consciously, but you completely.

Let's give her the benefit of the doubt subconsciously, in a premeditated way thought this could be a possibility.

And it's happened and you've justified it by saying that you were drunk and he has an open marriage.

Yeah. And quite frankly he's a bit of an.

Yep.

And it's, it's, it's a huge bit of an.

Suzie: I think he's a lot of an.

Mel: I mean there's so many problems here.

Suzie: What is gonna keep a secret from his wife about this? I'm sure there's way more secrets. I'm sure he slept with her mother too.

Mel: They could have sat with it. I mean like anybody outside of what he's meant to be doing, he's done it, hasn't he?

Suzie: It's so bad.

Mel: It's so Bad. I mean, so bad. And the other problem is I. The open relationship is not the issue, which I can't believe I'm actually saying that is he has no judgment at all.

He has no sense of judgment. So if you think about it, it's not just about sex. It's about everything in his life.

I wouldn't trust him with everything.

I wouldn't trust him at all. And then they're gonna lie.

And you know my feelings about lying and lying makes you behave in a weird way, and it causes other issues. And the sister's gonna be like, there's something going on here.

What's going on? I can't figure it out. And then it's just going to become this thing. And then lying. If you lie once and you have to lie and lie and you have to keep lying.

Oh, yeah. You can't just tell one lie. You've got to tell multiple lies to cover the first lie.

And then it's bad.

It's really bad.

I actually don't. You don't know what to tell you. You're damned if you do and damned if you don't. Because if you tell your sister, you'll probably lose your sister.

Yeah. Their relationship will, even though it's open, will probably break down eventually.

And if you don't tell them, you gotta live with this. And the likelihood of you sleeping with him again, because, again, this man has no judgment whatsoever and neither does she,

is gonna happen. Of course it's gonna happen.

I mean,

if you are that attracted to somebody that you would cross that kind of boundary.

Suzie: Well, this man is gonna divorce his wife and then Mary s the sister.

Mel: Oh, my God.

Suzie: I mean, if she ever finds out. If the other sister finds out, the wife's sister, the sister wife, she just so messed up.

Mel: But I told you in a previous episode that I knew somebody who.

Suzie: What?

Mel: The father.

Suzie: Oh, my God.

Mel: I've told you the story before.

Suzie: I can't remember.

Mel: So the father blocked it out. Yeah, exactly. My friend's father married my friend's mother.

Suzie: Oh, right.

Mel: Had two children.

Suzie: Yes.

Mel: My friend's mother had a sister, and while they were married, he had an affair with a sister and had another two children.

Suzie: With the wife's sister.

Mel: Yeah,

yeah. Had an affair. So she didn't know. And they didn't have a ****** open marriage. I mean, he's now on wife four or five, so. But whatever.

Not sisters, though. She ran out of sisters.

She ran out of sisters. Oh, my God. But my friend.

Suzie: It's exhausting.

Mel: Her cousins and her half siblings are the same one and the same.

Suzie: Oh, my go.

Mel: This is a massive mind.

And then they have children that she's very close to, so they're. They're her nieces and nephews and her cousins also. I mean, it's just like,

completely messed up.

Suzie: I want to know how much. How often this happens.

Mel: Oh, I think it happens a lot, you know, I think horrible.

I think it happens a lot. I think.

I think, you know, and secrets like this, you know, and they tear people apart. Because even if you never tell the secret,

it. Telling a lie affects your behavior because it means you kind of.

You overcompensate. Maybe that's the best way of putting it. When you tell a lie. You overcompensate.

Suzie: Yeah, I mean, it's just like this.

Mel: The.

Suzie: It's like the really ******* with, like, Woody Allen.

Mel: Oh, yeah.

Suzie: And like Elon Musk's dad.

Mel: What did Elon Musk's dad do?

Suzie: He's like married to one of his daughters or something in a really weird way, isn't he?

Mel: No idea. Yeah, he's like, he can't be married to one of his daughters. No.

Suzie: But like, his. His adoptive daughter, like, Woody Allen did that.

Mel: I'm pretty sure Woody Allen.

Suzie: I'm pretty sure it's the same situation.

Mel: I didn't even know that you could do that legally.

Suzie: I don't think you should be able to do that.

Mel: It's extremely weird.

Suzie: I mean, it's just like.

Mel: How is it.

Suzie: How is this. How is this able to happen? That. It blows my mind.

Mel: I mean, that is like a different kind of level of creepy. I knew when I was at school and I went to a girls school from 11 to 16,

and one,

the girl in my class was best friends with this other girl,

and they were best friends the whole time. 11 to 16. Wow. And then about 10 years later, so I'd say I was about 26 or 27,

I found out, or I went to this, like, social gathering, and the one girl's dad was dating, and they're married now and everything.

So the point I'm making is the dad, who was about 40, knew this girl from the age of 11,

and then he married her.

And you're like, I know you married her while it was legal, but it's questionable in my eyes as to what you were thinking about when it wasn't.

Suzie: I think this happens all the time.

Mel: Does it?

Suzie: I don't want to say all the time, but the men, it's like a grooming thing.

Mel: It's like Elvis.

Suzie: It's a grooming thing.

Mel: She was 14 or something.

Suzie: It's just like these, you know, men. This is why I'm saying this man is the one who is.

Mel: Well, he must have had it in his mind.

Suzie: He is the one who's to blame more than the sister.

Mel: Yeah. I mean, I don't know. I think that it's just bad because it's manipulation.

It's a manipulation. It just. If he has very open boundaries about sex because his marriage is structured that way,

his mind goes all over the place about who he's thinking about sleeping with. Therefore he's obviously thought about this a lot.

Right. In order to do it.

Right. Yep. He's fantasized about her and blah, blah, blah. And I'm not saying that that doesn't happen with people that they obviously. That they don't end up having sex though.

They don't do it because it's not right. Yeah. And because it's going to cause a lot of ******* problems.

And this is bad. This is really bad.

Suzie: Yeah.

Mel: And I say to you, the young woman, the sister,

is it. You're not justified. It is not a justification that they have an open marriage. I don't give a **** **** what kind of marriage they have.

Suzie: She doesn't give a **** ****.

Mel: There is a ****** line. She is your sister. Right. That you have a relationship with. She's not your long lost sister. No, you have a relationship with.

Suzie: She's your full sister sister.

Mel: You now have messed it up forever. Cause you're gonna feel guilty. So you're going to behave in a weird way.

And the husband. Yeah, well,

he's not much of a husband, is he?

Suzie: Oh my God.

Mel: I mean, shocking situation. Horrible situation.

Suzie: Yeah.

What would you do if you found. I know you don't have any siblings, so this makes this question better because it's not reality.

So what would you do if you found out your husband slept with,

let's say, your best friend? Because that's more realistic, I guess. You don't have a sister.

You'd have to get rid of both of them.

Mel: Yeah, 100%.

Suzie: But you can't do that with the sister. She's still your sister.

Mel: That's true. I wouldn't talk to her anymore though.

Why would I trust her? You can't trust her with anything.

Conscious of my ****** husband, what I'm going to trust her with.

I wouldn't trust her at all, ever. It is the ultimate crossing of the line.

Suzie: Do you think that there's any chance that she could tell her sister being like this happened or do you think it's the husband's responsibility?

Mel: God, it's such a loaded situation.

Suzie: I know.

Mel: I mean, look, on the one hand, if you lie, this is just gonna. Like I said, lie.

Suzie: Well, you have to lie. He already lied. He has already started the lie. Right. Because he. She found the glasses of wine.

Mel: Yeah.

Suzie: She's like, bring the other girl over, let's have a threesome. Yeah, that's what it sounded like.

And he probably was like, oh, you can't meet her because she's now.

I don't know, like what kind of. He's already lied about it.

Mel: Yeah.

Suzie: So now the sister has to come back from the lie or the husband has to tell the truth.

I think. Obviously don't tell anyone.

But you're all about truth and communication.

Mel: I am.

Suzie: And I'm against it.

Mel: Yeah. I mean, look, like I said, you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. You're damned.

Suzie: Because you're damned.

Mel: You're damned. I mean, it's possible the sister who is very open minded about sex might be like, okay, but kind of don't do it again.

But I don't know, I mean, it's kind of gross, isn't it?

It's a little too. That circle is a little too close.

Suzie: Exactly. And it's literally because you're not. They're gonna be in the same room again.

Mel: Yeah.

Suzie: So it's not like. And I know like this isn't how all open relationships work, but like sometimes when you,

when they have bring. It's like a new partner every time. Cause you don't wanna see them again. Cause you don't want them to get too close.

Mel: Yes.

Suzie: But now it's because you're. They're gonna have to see each other again at weddings, at celebrations, at family events, things like that.

You're never gonna be able to look at each other the same way.

Mel: No. And I think the other problem is you can tell if people have had some kind of.

Some kind of history.

Yeah. Because there's a. There's a familiarity that there is not there. If you haven't had some kind of intimate stuff going on,

whether it was, you know, important in your life or fleeting or whatever it is, you can kind of tell. And I.

I just think if the sister is experienced sexually as she obviously is,

I mean, she will eventually she'll be able to see it.

But this is bad.

Yeah, it's really bad.

And I really think you should take a very long ****** look in the mirror at yourself.

Suzie: It's bad because it's like this has happened so now you have to deal with it.

Mel: Yeah.

Suzie: So now you gotta lie.

Mel: And yeah, you're absolutely right. It's happened and you're gonna have to deal with it. Whether you lie or you don't lie. But do not make excuses for this.

Be accountable whether. Even if it's just yourself, you've done this. Right.

So I think you should be accountable.

I mean, I don't know what you do because what if the sister keeps asking and then you're like, you know, the husband.

Suzie: That's what I'm saying. It's up to the husband.

Mel: He's gonna have to make up a whole lie. Oh yeah. She was earned. She doesn't live in the city and all.

Suzie: She doesn't live in the city or like she regretted it because she's a husband or moved to the br.

Mel: A little something. You have to make a whole scenario up that's on the husband.

Suzie: The sister isn't a part of it, which is incredible. The sister has gotten away scot free.

When you get away scot free,

all you have is the, you know, the piece of your heart.

Mel: Guilt. Yeah, yeah, but the. I agree with that. It's just that can she. If she has slept with her brother in law.

Suzie: Yeah.

Mel: With so little as a few glasses of wine. She obviously, like I said,

majorly fancies him. Majorly attracted to him. Which is a problem.

Obviously this happens. We're human beings, can't control these things.

How is she going to stop that from showing?

Even with all. You gotta be a pretty good actor.

Suzie: Yeah.

Mel: You know, and that's.

Suzie: And when you have another couple bottles.

Mel: Of wine, then what's going.

Suzie: You're gonna **** again.

Mel: Of course this is bad, Susie.

Suzie: I know, but that's okay.

I don't know. I want to know if anyone else of our audience has had a situation like this because I feel like this is very similar to like sleeping with someone's best friend, even though it's not.

But like friend groups are sometimes even closer than families are.

Mel: I think it's very common that stuff happens where you sleep with a best friend or a wife or whatever.

Of course it happens all the time. Or people even leaving their partners and going off with the best friend or the sister or whatever, which is horrible. And that happens all the time.

Of course it does.

But here, to me, this is the crazy thing is they have an open marriage, therefore he has a whole past for life. And he still ****** it up.

This is amazing to me.

But the sister has the audacity to blame it on that. It's like, no,

you did wrong, girl.

Suzie: Girl, you in trouble.

Mel: Did you like that?

Suzie: I did, actually.

Mel: Anyway, I'm incensed. Infuriated.

Suzie: We're infuriated. But also I. It's happens.

Mel: It does jinx.

Suzie: Yummy. Glass of wine. So bad. Such a bad joke. Anyways, guys, we're gonna move on because this is too much.

Mel: This has gone into very weird places.

Suzie: Horrible. But if you guys have had experiences like this,

we want to know.

I mean, I'm hoping it's all with a family member,

but most likely you're sleeping with a best friend,

you're sleeping with somebody friend's wife. You should someone you shouldn't be, if you've slept with someone you shouldn't be or something like that. We'd love for you to talk about it with us.

You might even be on the pod and you can send us an email, send us a voicemail sharingmytruth.com or just DM us your story on any of our socials at Sharing My Truth Pod.

We'd love to hear from you and we'd love to discuss it.

Ready for it, guys?

Mel: Love you. Until next time.

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Mel: Thanks so much for listening. Please rate and review this podcast and follow us on social at sharingmytruth pod and leave us a voicemail on our website sharingmytruth.com to share your stories and experiences with us.

We'll see you next time. Bye bye.

Suzie: Three, two, one. Sam.