Speaker A: Welcome to Sharing My Truth with Mel and Susie. The uncensored version where we bear it all.

Speaker B: We do.

Speaker A: And hello everyone, and welcome back to Sharing My Truth Pod. You're here with Mel and Susie and thank you so much for tuning back in to part two of our interview with Mr.

Jeff James.

He is a licensed therapist and he deals with more when women couples, but he also deals with people who have trauma and ptsd. If you listen to part one or if you didn't listen part one, go back and listen to part one.

Part one was definitely more about just getting into the beginning of men culture and men's opinions on dating women in general in these day and ages, which is obviously difficult if you're in the dating scene right now as I am.

It's not easy.

But yeah, if you guys had any questions about part one,

you guys can go to share my truth.com or share my truth pod and you can DM us.

We'd love to hear your opinions on part one. But part two,

we are talking more to Jeff about part two is more about incel culture.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: How did men get there and can we get them out?

And also cheating and why are men cheating?

And is that any. Can we stop it?

I would say no. But yeah, it's definitely an interesting conversation at this part. What do you think, Mel?

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I think the incel stuff and we talked to him and we've all seen Jeff and Susie and I have seen the show Adolescence.

And Susie and I, like many people, were aware of the incel culture, but a huge amount of people are not aware,

particularly in my age group, like people in their 40s and 50s, like, just not aware of this level of misogyny and toxic behavior. But I think the conversation with Jeff was interesting because he was also pointing out the misandry,

the hate that women have in today's culture for men,

which we do not talk about like misplaced, irrational,

really hateful comments about men,

which are just as bad.

And you know, they do touch on that a little bit in adolescence, you know, but very little about what the girl was doing to bait this guy to do this inexcusable thing.

But I think that was an interesting conversation with Jeff and him talking to us about some of these young men who feel so very invisible.

And I think because. And we talked a lot with him about social media and how that's just exacerbated this because obviously you can go out and if you looked at social media, you'd think everyone was gorgeous.

And of course they're not. And what that does to a huge section of the population and women's perception of what they want from a man.

Now, you know, question,

did we get to the solution of is this worse than it ever was? I don't know. Or is it just the fact that because of social media and because of all these forums and groups and stuff, it's able to flourish online?

Men can connect about it.

But I think that was a very interesting conversation with him.

Speaker A: Yeah. I think this part of the, of the conversation, this part of the interview is much more.

Speaker B: He.

Speaker A: I don't want to say heated because we never had a heated argument with him, but it's more about like his opinions are real and they are truthful to him.

I'm not saying Mel and I agreed or you know, with everything he said. I think obviously we have, we have, both of us have all different opinions about, about male culture and women culture and.

But yeah, he, he has some great points and I appreciate people with different opinions than I do.

Right. I think that's the thing we have to remember when we hear something we don't fully agree with.

It's not about,

you know, you can't say that.

We have to understand what people are actually going through. And I think he does have a good sense of what men are dealing with right now.

Not saying that, like I agree every with everything he said, but like, I think he was, he was a great person to speak to about this. And you know, with the male culture right now being chronically online and even women too, that's.

Everyone is getting so much more extreme with their beliefs in every single way that that brings.

Yeah, I really appreciated the conversation with him.

Speaker B: Yeah. I just think it was,

you know, some of his views are perhaps not popular and you don't want to hear. But I think again,

to understand things, we've got to listen to lots of different opinions.

And I don't think people are very good at doing that in this day and age.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: And you know, this is a real problem and it has to. It comes from somewhere. Why is it there? And I think what he also talked a lot about is obviously this incel culture, but then it trickles down into like less extreme versions of misogyny that we even see ourselves on our social media that even that just kind of lesser version of it is pretty extreme and it's really hating women.

But on the flip side,

there's a lot of real nasty men hating women from women. Yeah. And we don't talk about any of that.

Speaker A: Well, there's no consequences online.

Speaker B: No.

Speaker A: Besides getting, like, I don't know, banned from whatever because you're saying something really rude and then Instagram bands you or something. But, like, there's no real consequences in this community.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: So you can say whatever you want until you get actually banned. But, like, you know, there's free pages like Reddit where you can pretty much do and say whatever you want.

And you're not gonna get banned. Like,

and you're just gonna find these communities way easier.

But it's not like everyone is like this. Like, you get off social media, you get off the Internet,

people are nice, people are normal.

Speaker B: People are normal. Yeah. I mean, you know, social media, I think,

you know, I've said this many times. But negativity and controversy is what drives social media. Cause as human beings, we don't wanna hear people being nice. We wanna hear them saying controversial, nasty stuff.

And that's why ha can flourish.

Because,

you know, if you find somebody else who's got the same kind of hate beliefs, then it can flourish. And then you think somehow you make it acceptable. Yeah, but I think the conversation with him was like,

men are doing it and women are doing it. Yeah. And it both needs to stop because it's gross.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So that was a very interesting part of that conversation. Yeah.

Speaker A: And then it ends with. With us talking about cheating. And you guys should listen obviously, to the. To the end because he does have some very interesting opinions on.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Cheating and men. Men's obviously, specifically cheating.

But yeah, it's. And I know Mel hates. I just hate the topic, but she hates cheating in general. So it is. It is interesting.

So it is a. It is an amazing. It's amazing to talk to him, to talk to someone who has a different opinion. It's awesome. So thanks so much for tuning in, guys.

Hope you enjoy this part two of our interview with Jeff James.

And you can find all of the links to find him in this episode.

Bio.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And we love ya. Enjoy.

Speaker B: Speak to you next time.

Speaker A: So what was the reaction when you saw the show Adolescence, which is like, based in. In Cell Cancer?

Speaker C: I understand why it's extremely appealing. I understand why I see why it's going viral. I understand why I believe it's the third most watched show on Netflix history after being out for such a short amount of time, which is crazy.

But it's wildly,

wildly off in most.

In most ways in which they try to categorize what's actually going on.

I'm being honest with you.

And the problem with it is Several things. But the first is they clearly did not use an expert on incel culture.

Any expert on any.

Go on YouTube when you get the chance and type in incel experts review adolescence and see all the data they have in comparison to how the show tried to cover it to a degree.

And it was only four episodes, so there was only so much, of course, that they could do. But I'm going to tell you one thing that I loved and I think they did get right.

And it was very subtle and I don't know if people actually picked it up enough.

The first is when the two detectives were walking through the school.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: And they're trying to engage with the students. And it's very clear, like they're just missing it. Students aren't saying anything. Nobody's really wanting to work with them. Like they're just getting all this resistance.

They're not really getting anywhere in terms of their investigation.

And the lead detective,

after he talks with his son and his son talks about the red pill and.

And he's asking son, did you see the Matrix? And his son's like, what's the Matrix like? What are you talking like?

And they captured the confusion of people who aren't in it.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker C: Don't do this for a living, who aren't psychologists, who aren't psychiatrists, who aren't in mental health, who aren't in these spaces.

Even people who are talking about it all the time.

If you're not in it, you don't actually get it.

When I talked about that mountaintop thing,

you don't know what it's like to be considered invisible and useless to both men and women.

You don't get it.

You don't know that feeling.

I don't care if you're the most unattractive.

If you saw the show,

what was it? My 400, 500 pound life or something like that,

where they got to get cranes and break down doors to move these people.

Why all these women got men?

Speaker A: Why? Great question.

Speaker C: I've always thought because as a woman, by default, she's still going to have value with some man.

Speaker A: Wow.

Speaker C: But at a certain age,

she still. But again,

if the first 60 years of you living, you're seen as valuable to somebody that matters versus in comparison, you can go your entire life and be considered a genetic dead end.

Speaker A: That is actually so interesting.

Speaker C: So on the show,

these are lead detectives whose job it is to learn to question,

think of things on multiple levels. And they had no idea that there's a subculture of bullying and ostracization amongst.

Not just boys doing this to each other, but on social media,

other people who you may not even know,

also saying things about you, also targeting you. And it's not just the bullying and the tactics. It's also the shaming. It's also the rejection. It's also being seen as invisible.

And I don't. It's a very, very, very hard way. It's a very hard concept to try to describe to people who, for most of their life or they have yet to experience what it means to be invisible since they were 14 years old.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker C: They don't know what that. That feeling is. And. And I thought the show did a really good job of. The parents didn't see it.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: The. The detectives didn't know it. But the second piece I thought they got really great was when they found out,

oh, snap.

The kid's being targeted.

The kid's being bullied.

The victim apparently was a contributing member of this, and she was leading the charge.

And the things that she would say and the viciousness of how they were treating this boy. I'm not gonna say what he did was justified. Spoiler alert for those who didn't watch the show.

If you didn't, it's your fault by now.

Speaker A: Yeah, exactly.

Speaker C: But the callous response that the woman investigator had when he tried to bring it to her attention, like, I think there's more that's going on with this case.

And she said, I just want the attention to be on the victim, on the girl.

And what I would suggest is there were two victims. It's just that one died.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker C: One lost their life and one lost their freedom potentially for the rest of their lives.

And what happens is that small little snippet is an example of the larger pool of what's going on.

Yes, he did something wrong. Yes, he's the murderer. Yes, he needs to be incarcerated. I agree with all of that, obviously.

But the environment that created someone like that,

we're so oblivious to the realities and perspectives of what young boys and men are going through.

You don't get it that for many men, they don't see feminism.

Doesn't matter if they don't have the great working definition of it. Their experience of all these people who claim that identity.

You don't actually care about equality.

That's a woman advocacy movement, or at least was up until recent debates about who. Who can or can't be a woman. But prior to this debate, it's always been for many people, and particularly many men, it's more so A women advocacy program, which is totally fine.

But you cannot say that you care about men and that you're advocating for equality. And I'm gonna list these things off and I wrote em down to make sure I don't forget it.

You don't care about mandatory paternity test.

You don't care about paternity fraud.

You don't care about male suicide rates.

You don't care about equalizing hard laborious jobs outside.

You don't want to equalize that.

You don't care about what happens to people that are falsely accused, which is almost always exclusively men.

You don't actually care about the declining school performance, the rise in ADHD diagnosis and the psychiatric medication that comes from it. You don't care about the lack of homeless shelters for men.

You don't care about the weaponization of the family court, the equal custodial rights, reproductive safe for men,

reduction in child support and alimony, pathologizing of just men and masculinity in general,

negative attitudes towards even men that want a nuclear family. You don't think or care about any of these things.

And I'm not even saying it's just the feminists that don't care about it.

No, I'm saying most people who don't do what I do don't care about this at all.

And you're creating,

and we talked about this 80, 20 rule. What's happening to the 80%?

You don't care.

And the beauty is if I just get the man I want, if I just get the partner I want,

if I just,

I don't care about what's happening with men. Let's bring the attention back to women. That's what the detective did in that show and that is what society in Western cultures is unfortunately like.

Most people only care about males or boys or men if they are their brother, their son or their father or their uncle or their close friend.

This society,

in the quest to be fair to women to improve their rights,

allow the worst representatives to take it to its furthest extreme right.

When we talk so much about misogyny,

most women can't tell you what the term is for a strong distaste and hatred for men.

What's the term,

Missandri?

Being a misandrist.

Most men's experiences that we keep labeling as incels. We keep labeling as misogynist.

Their experiences in coworker situations, in the schools,

dating on dating apps, is that a lot of women are either misandrist or they're so reductionist, so reductionistic of Men that if you don't have the money, you have no say and you need to shut up.

And even if you do have the money,

it's happy wife, happy life. Once I'm in your life.

Yeah,

I done told my wife, I done told my wife. We joke around about it all the time when we're amongst other couples and friends.

She sarcastically say all the time,

the one thing I appreciate about Jeff more than anything is he's the same exact person in home as he is in public.

He doesn't change.

So if I'm gonna say no,

I'm gonna say no. If I'm gonna disagree, I'm gonna disagree.

And men not going through the natural maturation process as teenagers, as early adults, because they literally don't have the opportunity to. With women,

we can't be shocked anymore that there's an environment that's festering of boys and young men who unfortunately have a strong distaste. And I would argue not even for women in general.

Women in the Western cultures and countries,

this is why they're running to the other countries and cultures where men are at least still seen as valuable,

relevant, important.

Speaker B: No, I think,

I think that like anything in the west, to redress any kind of, any imbalance in anything,

we've had to go to some crazy level to the other side and yeah.

Come to a middle thing and,

and why are we so surprised? Why do we have to have shows like adolescents that quite frankly are pretty late in the game in terms of culture.

And like you said,

I talk quite a lot of my friends, you know, who were all parents,

and they had no idea what I mean, I knew about it. I'm doing this podcast and I see these comments all the time and I was very aware of it.

I've read a lot about it,

had no idea about it. And I'm like, you have teenage children and young adult children. How do you not know?

How are you that ill informed?

I agree with you.

Speaker C: To me, you know what's crazy?

Yeah,

I'm sorry to cut you off, but you want to know what's crazy? When you're in a marketing environment where both parents got to work long hours and both parents are out of the home for extended periods of time and both parents have to figure out so much and you don't even have one parent that's like really super involved versus they both are kind of got 40 hour work schedules and one may have to do additional overtime and

the cost of living is exploding.

It's harder than ever before.

Speaker B: Oh yeah.

Speaker C: For Parents, men and women, fathers and mothers. It's, it's, it's, it's a lot harder now.

We are living in an area in New Jersey where our property taxes per month is the cost of most people rent across the world.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Where our daycare is more than the cost for daycare for one to two kids is the equivalent of what 50 to 60% of people in the world make.

So it's kind of difficult to be super duper involved and actually know what's going. You know what she saw?

My son's home.

He turns the light off when I tell him to turn the light off.

And he doesn't get in trouble.

He goes to school every day, he gets good grades.

Parents are just surviving. Mothers, fathers, people are just trying to figure this. You know what I'm saying? Like this is, I'm not saying it's a complete,

like there's no,

they get no fault, they get no blame. I'm just saying that the context for what we're in is what's also creating this type of dynamic and environment.

So it's. And then lastly, I meant to say the dynamic. Why is this exploding and why is this so big in the UK and why are these government officials getting all involved in this?

I'm gonna tell you this right now. If you are a young woman or woman, period,

and you're thinking about, well, oh my gosh, this incel thing and all these men wanna harm me and hurt me and do this or do that,

a huge percentage of the boys and men that feel that way,

there's a reason why they're leading the statistics of being four times more likely to take their own life.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker C: They're actually far more of a danger.

Speaker B: To themselves than to anybody else.

Speaker C: Even in a relationship.

You take a woman who's in a relationship with a man,

in a relationship with a woman,

her domestic violence rates are significantly higher with another woman than with a man.

Speaker B: Really?

Speaker C: DV rates are up. Divorce rates are up. When same sex relationships between two women than her with a man.

Speaker B: I know, it's the highest. Divorce rate is less than couples.

Speaker C: Yeah. And so is the DV rate.

Speaker B: What's the D?

Speaker A: They should be having the most orgasms. That's unbelievable.

Speaker C: Domestic violence DV rate.

Yeah.

So again,

this show is so popular, it's so big,

probably a quarter million plus people are probably going to watch it. And now they're again adding to this narrative that the most unsafe you can be is dealing with and doing life with men or males.

And what I'm arguing is a huge percentage of them end up taking their own life.

A very, very small percentage of them, if they get successful enough,

end up finding a suitable partner or they're going abroad to find a woman who can meet their needs.

So it's not to say that there's violence between men and women. That doesn't exist. Of course it's a thing.

All I'm suggesting is that the show,

there may be ulterior motives for why the show is being pushed.

And whenever politicians or celebrities or anybody who's not a normal person jumps in on a wave,

always be wary of what's the thing that they're pushing and what's the policy that that's going to come down as a result of this. Is this going to be a social media crackdown?

Is this going to be a monitoring thing where people have to register their social ID numbers or something in order for them to even have access to a website or have access to the Internet?

I'm going to argue this prime time.

It's perfect to push something like this in a political environment when Gen Z and some millennials between men and women are splitting further than they've ever been,

and then you have a huge pool of women who are looking for explanations to justify why all these men are splintering off and voting differently than us, thinking differently than us, going their own way, not wanting to marry women.

There's gotta be some explanation for it. And it can't possibly be because of our decision making,

our hierarchy, of what we're attracted to or not attracted to. It can't be us.

It's gotta be because they're all incels,

right?

It's gotta be because they just outright hate women.

It can't possibly be because there's been an environment that's been telling them that we hate you.

Can't possibly be that.

It can't be society or culture or the colleges or liberal union. It can be any of those factors or even how we treat the men who we think don't check off all our bodies.

It can't be none of that.

It's gotta be because of this Netflix series. And now we need a policy to deal with that.

That's the level of thinking that I want all of us to start to get better at when we watch anything on social media,

anything on streaming services.

Because I would argue much of the things that's impacting us and influencing the quote unquote gender war is not even coming from in here.

It's coming from what we're seeing. On screens and on these computers.

When I walk around in everyday life, men and women still open the door for each other.

A woman's in trouble, men are still going to rush to help her.

A black man, a white man is hurt in some way.

Whoever the race of the person is, they're still going to try to intervene and help them.

I'm trying to lift a heavy box. My white neighbor going to come and come and lift it up. Somebody who's gay or trans, if they need help or support, it's still happening.

Hate exists. I know that. But I'm telling you,

the social media, the trends, what's going viral isn't actually 100% a reflection of what's actually happening most of our lives.

You're actually not walking around and most men are spitting at you, calling you names,

attacking you.

That's not happening in modernity,

not in mass.

The majority of a huge percentage of the men that's at threat,

they got, they're arrested, they got. They got records.

Speaker A: No, absolutely. Like, I think, obviously social media makes it look like everyone is out to get you. And that's why we're having so many problems now.

Speaker C: Adolescents,

as true as it is about exposing something a lot of people didn't know,

what's the takeaway that this is happening everywhere?

This is happening everywhere.

It's crazy.

It's so much going like,

I'm gonna be honest with you,

the US and our thing of violence,

we have the monopoly, it seems like, on school violence, it's insane. We're not using knives, we're using guns.

And much of it is in response to being bullied or being radicalized with some particular political or religious ideology. That's usually what it is. It doesn't make it any better,

but it's really not heavily connected.

There is no significant data that shows that this is happening en masse.

I'm telling you, if you went to the data and looked at UK stats of who the primary groups doing the stabbing, the stabbings and the knifings, it's not who you saw on the show,

right?

It's not who you saw. We don't have to go political or go into who is and who isn't doing.

It's not who they showed on the show. You have a market of white males who feel so angry and disenfranchised and feeling like they're being blamed for everything and they're not allowed to hold an opinion, not allowed to hold a view.

And now you're shocked with the reactions and responses of what's coming and it's not even all violent.

It's just a noticeable shift.

And in the end game,

everybody can say, well, we're all going to lose in the end.

The mountaintop is undefeated.

Father Tom is undefeated.

Mother Nature's undefeated.

The men whose 30,

who can figure out how to get what they need in order physically, emotionally,

financially,

they have the leverage.

The most leverage a woman's gonna have is when she's her fittest,

youngest, most fertile self.

Speaker B: Of course, 100%. I say this all the time.

I say this all the time because I hear so often, oh, women are the gatekeepers of sex. And you're like, they are when they're young,

that. When they're very. When they're young. But, you know, you start to.

I think women sort of 30, 35,

you know, you start to sort of.

It's not that you're not attractive, but you're not attractive to the same age as men. Whereas men can look up or down all along.

Whereas women, the older we get, we can only look up in age or down in age.

You know, I mean, I always say to my husband, if I,

you know,

God forbid, we wouldn't get divorced. But if we got divorced, he could, he could find anybody of any age and it would be a younger woman. Absolutely. Be a younger woman.

Speaker C: You said he's a lawyer, right?

Speaker B: Yes, he's a lawyer. He can marry who he wants.

Speaker C: What are we talking about here?

Speaker B: Exactly? No issues. Exactly.

Speaker C: This would be a lot. It don't matter how he look. It don't matter how he dress. When they hear a lawyer and they hear widow, oh, he need food.

He needs.

Speaker B: I know, it's true. Whereas I'd have to marry an 80.

Speaker A: Year old for sure.

Speaker B: And my goal would be like, I'm.

Speaker A: Also marrying an 80 year old, by the way.

Speaker B: I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that,

but it changes.

I mean, we have. We could obviously go on forever talking to you. There's so much to talk about.

Speaker A: I know. I want to. I wanted to go back for one second. Did you finish all of your thoughts on the cheating? Because I. We may have.

Speaker C: Oh, skipped. So I, Yeah, I actually, I definitely prepped for this part because I figured this question.

Speaker A: Let's go. It'll be our last little segment of the show because we've already gone over an hour, which I love,

but I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.

Speaker C: All right. So the main thing I'm going to say is I'm careful to avoid what's called a naturalist fallacy.

And this is the false belief that because something is natural, it must be moral or good.

So I just kind of set put that out there as a qualifier with what I'm about to say.

There's something called like a blank slate theory or socialization theory. And it's very basically, it's a debate about nature versus nurture.

Most people who consider themselves feminists,

they have a working presupposition of theory about human beings, men and women and human sexuality.

And their belief system is rooted in this.

When you lean much more into nurture versus nature,

anytime you see distinctions,

differences,

sociological reactions or responses for whatever reason between men and women,

you are going to believe that you can socialize it out of them.

What it means is if you don't believe that there's biological,

evolutionary hardwiring that's built into us to, to be attracted to, to desire to do and behave in certain ways,

you're going to believe that the sex that isn't the sex that's, that's not doing what you think they should be doing is because you can socialize them to now act like the other sex.

Speaker B: Right? Okay. Yeah.

Speaker C: All right.

The reason why that's important with this topic and all others is because there is a version of femininity that believes any distinction, even when it comes to sexual,

is something that just has to be completely 100% socialized and changed out of men.

And that as long as men start to behave, communicate, think and act like women, they'll be fine.

So when it comes to sex,

they'll insist that there is no innate socio psychological differences between men and women. They'll functionally believe that because they're psychologically the same,

we should have the same expectations.

This is the issue.

There's physiological differences and the physiological differences are some are very minute, but then some are massive, which huge implications.

These are some of the differences that I noted. And obviously naturally we know that there's differences between men and women. Grip strength, speed, upper body strength versus lower body strength.

We know this like generally speaking there's physiological differences, but there's physiological differences when sex occurs and when they have orgasm.

And I'm going to question once I, I'm gonna have a question once I list these, these off.

And the question is this actually do men and women experience sex and are the consequences they experience from said sex the same or different?

These are the things that I noted that were different.

Um,

men tend to have higher sexual desire and are more accepting of casual, non commitment based sex sex Hormone amounts and patterns are different between male and females.

The hypothalamus,

which is the region of the brain involved in sexual activity, is both larger and more sensitive to testosterone.

Men tend to experience quicker and more intense sexual arousal in orgasms compared to women.

Research shows that women's sexual desire has more variables and is influenced by factors like self esteem,

relationships, emotions, and how they feel about their bodies, the relationship and overall emotional state.

Social consequences of clear communication of their desires in the domains of sex,

especially sexually. So think of it this way, because that one could be a little bit confusing.

If men were bluntly or straightforwardly honest about how often they think about sex,

about the different ways that they think about sex, about the different types of women that they want to experience in terms of thinking about sex. If they were honest about how they felt sexually,

are they rewarded for their honesty?

Speaker B: No. No.

Speaker C: And then lastly,

that was great reproduction. Evolutionary drives for men or women,

they're typically,

you are the product of thousands, if not tens of thousands of years of one side of a person or one set group trying to survive and procreate and mate, select in a certain way.

And the other group, you're the product of a person who kept people who kept sowing their seed.

And the question's gonna be like, well, wait a minute.

If there's all of these evolutionary, biological, physiological differences,

and men and women clearly don't even experience sex, let alone orgasms in the same way.

I don't know. Actually, I do know,

but I'm just saying it facetiously. I don't know that in the quest to be like men,

that's actually been a net benefit to most women,

especially after 40, 50 years of this experiment.

That doesn't mean that men are justified to cheat.

It seems to suggest that at least their biological hardwiring has designed them to better be able to be okay with doing it.

Speaker A: Right. I mean, I totally agree with that. Like, men are built to sex.

Speaker C: We're both built to have sex. But men are better built to. To do meaningless sex.

Speaker A: Right?

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker C: What came with the sexual revolution and liberation, we have to acknowledge, was the opening the door for loveless sex.

Speaker A: Well, men are built to populate the.

Speaker C: Earth for commitment, less sex.

And men are biologically hardwired to be better built with doing that on a regular basis.

And nothing has to be feels like wrong for him to do it. He doesn't have to know your name,

he doesn't have to know anything about you. He just has to find you attractive. There's so many social Cues. There's so many more cues. That a woman is this safe,

if something happens,

is he gonna harm me in some way? There's so many other things that that's innate. No one had to tell her these things.

And so for me it's less about whether it's right or wrong and it's more about in the quest to be progressive and modern and this and that.

Are we ignoring biological reality at the potential risk and demise of women?

I would argue that the greatest victims of this experiment that we've been doing loveless, commitmentless sex recreationally.

Number three on the list is the men who can't get access to it.

Number two on the on the list are women who are single and can't find a suitable partner,

who are looking for long term commitment and monogamy in a market where the men who get the options don't have to give that number one on the list is children.

You don't even have to be a celebrity.

You have guys that look like me whose experiences with women will rival kings and monarchs from previous times before they turn 30 or 35.

That's the reality.

You're in a market where things are not equal. They're never going to be equal. Our equality starts and stops with our value as human beings.

I'm not equal to another man.

So what made you think like there's men who do way better than me, make way more money than him, is way more respected and men that don't,

we're not equal.

We only are equal as human beings.

Nothing else about what we got going on makes us equal.

So when you try to be equal to a man and you try to try to dictate what's going to happen in this market, I'm going to be honest with you.

You got two choices.

Part of the other reason for why some men will cheat is because they don't have the option to do so.

It what's the reward for the guy that no woman is checking for you? You don't have the option.

You don't, you're not, you don't even have the option to cheat. No woman checking for you. You're not that attractive. You got lucky with getting with some woman who wanted to settle down or settled for you.

And part of the reason why you're so faithful is because it's fairly easy when you don't have women that's constantly trying to poach you and steal you from your wife or girlfriend.

Speaker A: Sure.

What about some men who are like actively, even if aren't like let's say like, say like, not bad.

What about those men who are actively looking and like,

cheating is hard nowadays to get careful. Consider defeating as ****. People consider cheating as talking to someone else on social media. You know, there's a lot of layers of cheating nowadays.

Speaker C: Yeah,

yeah. I would, I would say this, and this is going to be funny because we,

my group, we talk about this stuff all the time.

As a woman,

part of the reason for why it wasn't ultimately just your decision in the past was for this very reason.

Because if you had to make it, let's say 100% of men cheated,

100% of men are going to cheat, have the capacity to cheat. 100%.

And this question is,

are you going to give one man 10 chances?

Are you going to give 10 men one chance?

The amount of women who will say that they would.

I'm done after the first time. Every time. I don't tolerate it. I don't this, I don't that.

What I'm suggesting is going to sound kind of controversial.

You only have three options when it comes to mates with men.

The man who probably doesn't have the option to cheat and the man who does.

And the man who has the option to cheat.

You have to make a decision of whether or not you're going to stay.

There's men that probably will never cheat on you.

They won't have the opportunity to. Ain't no women going to try. When women go give him the time of day, he stays to. He plays video games all day. He don't go nowhere.

He don't do nothing.

He doesn't check off eight of the 10 boxes that women are looking for,

chances are,

or if he's extremely religious and extremely disciplined.

And if you don't want the guy that most other women don't want,

or if you don't want the guy that's ultra conservative or ultra religious,

you got to deal with the men that potentially have the option to cheat.

And then you have to decide between that group.

Is this the type of man that I'm willing to give my name to,

give children to marry and stay with,

even if something like this happens,

that's the choices.

The guy that you're probably 99% confident won't and the guy that may or may not,

and you gotta decide if you're gonna stay with what's the guy? It's gonna sound horrible,

but what's the man that you're willing to saddle and set yourself up with to where either he doesn't do it or if he does, you'll stay. Or he does, but you'll never know or find out about it.

Speaker A: Cheating in private, that's the only option.

Speaker C: Malay cheating with Clay. Like, the whole point I'm making,

it's a stark reality, is you're in a modern world where the pool of men that you're even interested and attracted to,

you have a global market of competition of women who also think he's attractive.

Speaker A: No, I agree. Like, it is a very weird place that we are in right now because people have so opportunity to cheat. And in my experience, dealing with a lot of men through all ages,

most of them cheat. And so it is very interesting to me when I see a man who doesn't cheat or has no interest in cheating. And that was like my.

Who was. Was seriously a very kind man and is,

if I say so myself, he is one of the top guys.

Great job. He. And he had no interest in cheating.

But I think.

Well, I know, obviously, but he's. I think he's abnormal. I don't think it had anything to do with me. I think it was.

Speaker C: It usually. Listen, it usually doesn't because it still is his decision at the end of the day if he wants to do it,

regardless of what you're going to do or not do.

But you gotta remember he's still an ex.

But like,

what I'm saying is that didn't help him,

right. In the grand scheme of things,

they didn't ensure that you would stay.

Speaker A: You're right.

Speaker C: And that's the thing that I don't think. What's the best way to say it?

Speaker B: Oh, just say it anyway. We can take it.

Speaker A: We'll see where our audience.

Speaker C: But yeah,

so many of the bad boys,

so many of the cheaters,

so many of the guys who constantly are running through women were at one time the dutiful good boy.

A lot of them, you don't. You aren't born a bad boy.

You see who gets the attention.

You see who ignores you.

You see what happens when you get a little taller, get a little more bass in your voice, grow a little bit of a beard and the dynamics change.

You see what, you see how they change towards you once they suspect or see that another woman is interested.

You're seeing this stuff.

And if a woman's ex,

of all her exes cheated on her,

do you know the hell I'm going to go through to try to be the guy who does everything right?

And the **** I gotta go through?

And I'm like, well, what, What,

What Is this thing where all the guys who do in X, Y and Z, they get all the options.

There is this thing of like, even when it comes to attraction traits,

you all value experience.

We don't.

Speaker A: So experience been like actual experience. Yeah.

Speaker C: So when he's a virgin, I don't care how admirable he is,

if you found out he was a virgin,

had no experience with women whatsoever, he goes down a couple points instantly.

If he finds out you only have one or two boyfriends, oh my gosh, I gotta get her off the market immediately.

You don't wanna know. Listen. You don't wanna know the number,

but you're paying attention to certain things and knows, oh, he has a few exes, he has some.

Some women that are his girlfriends that he's cool and comfortable with. He's very comfortable around women. He's very charismatic. That only comes with practice, for sure. That only comes with experience.

Speaker A: So you're saying, should men cheat because they have. They. It doesn't matter if they don't.

Speaker C: I'm saying that what you're labeling and calling cheating is an express.

Is labeling an aspect of reality that was a market that was artificially created by the women and their standards.

So for instance, if most modern women in western countries demand monogamy,

in most many human cultures throughout civilization actually was okay with polygony because they factored this part in and you don't,

the consequence is going to be is you keep leaving for cheating because he's not allowed to have a second wife or girlfriend.

Speaker A: Mel hates cheating. This is her favorite topic in the.

Speaker C: World, which is fine. But I know that if you were born 500, not even 500, if you were born in another culture, another time, another civilization,

you probably wouldn't have the leverage to be able to demand anything about. This man is going to be with me and only me for the next 60 years of his life.

He gave a dowry,

he was a king, he was a monarch, he was very wealthy, he had this or that.

And him having two concubines or your wife number two or three, that's just what it was. I'm not saying that was good,

but that was the part of human nature that people from the past and tradition accepted as a reality.

When you are a blank slatist,

your reactions and responses to something that clearly they're more designed to. To be able to do way more easily than you can is going to trigger you to constantly want to divorce.

Leave now. I gotta find a new guy to sleep with now. I gotta. Now I Gotta find the next partner every year.

How many men do you want to do this dance with before you make one of the two major decisions? I need to get with a guy who's not gonna cheat and stay with him,

or I need to get with a guy who potentially could cheat, but I'm going to stay with him because he checks off all the other boxes that I'm looking for.

The guy who is extremely good looking,

extremely tall,

makes all this money,

and is also going to be faithful to you for the next 50 plus years of his life.

So one in. What's the percentage of that one in?

One in.

If, if 1% men is just based on height,

weight, height in salary,

he. He's 1% of 1%.

Speaker A: No. It's a very interesting case.

Speaker C: So listen, that ex.

Don't let me call him.

Cause I fixed it. I say, listen, man, she, she going, she gonna fix it. Y' all good. She forgave you for whatever. And the reality is things change.

And that's just it. And I don't want to say it's justified. It's just I've seen the story and I've seen it's in my community as well. And it's where it's most.

Highest divorce rate, lowest marital rate, highest rate of single parent, single mother households. Everything is skewed and horrible.

And all of these women are coming back out there older, more kids, more jaded.

Man after man.

At some level you kind of listen, you can be date women.

You could be by yourself,

you could date the man that nobody else wants,

or you could date the man that you know everybody else wants.

And whether he does tactfully do a little something on the side,

you're not leaving.

But the. Yeah, yeah, go ahead.

Speaker A: I mean, it's definitely a hard thing because women really don't want to look stupid,

right? And so if we are dating a man who is hot and like, we're just hoping that we're like crossing our little fingers that like, he's just not gonna cheat.

The biggest thing about it is like, women really don't want to look like.

We don't want people to feel bad for us.

Like, and so if we, if our community knows that we're with a guy who's really good looking, but he's cheating on us. Like, we're, we're mo. Like, because now we're able to leave,

we're most likely never not going to stand for that because we can't take the opinions of other people that are negative as women.

Speaker C: I'm going to say that there's pros and cons to caring so much about a bunch of people pay your bills and guess what?

They got cheated on and now they alone.

They getting cheated on.

Yeah. You said what?

Speaker A: Maybe being alone is better though.

Speaker C: Okay, But I'm assuming these millions and millions of views and likes and sharing of content, of them saying how hard it is to find the right man and how lonely they are and how upset they are and how they regret their divorce, I think two things are true.

I think that there's women who are genuinely okay with being on their own. They got peace,

they're fine.

They're not looking for partnership and they're cool. Like they don't want kids or like that exists. There are people like that.

A huge percentage of women are not,

are not 100%.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: And the social factor of constantly trying to measure what you're going to do with your life,

your marriage,

your livelihood and financial situation based on how other people who don't pay none of your bills,

who aren't going to do much for you and can't fulfill your needs in any of these other categories.

Listen,

the harsh truth is if fathers and uncles and male role models had more say,

had more influence and were respected enough to even be asked their opinion,

none of this would be new information.

They would tell you,

there's this group of men you probably want to avoid and stay away from,

and there's the group of men that you need to cling to no matter what.

And this is how you identify them.

Do not spend your teens and your twenties chasing all these men that's going to do all these things.

You probably never going to be able to have a man that successfully checks off 10 out of 10 boxes every season,

every year for the rest of your life.

So when he loses his job,

when he has a slip up,

when he has a down season emotionally,

when he's not the best father,

husband,

partner,

he forgets some special occasion.

You have to find a man that you're willing to deal with the rigors of life even when he doesn't always live up to all 10 boxes.

Because guess what?

You don't check all 10 boxes.

Speaker A: No, that's absolutely.

Speaker C: Melanie checked all the boxes. Melanie check off all ten boxes.

Speaker A: Melanie does.

Speaker C: Right. But the point I'm making is, remember what I said about that, that that 70, 80% initiation, breakup and divorce thing?

It's not because women are checking off all the boxes and showing up in all the ways that they agreed that they would.

It's Just men are still willing to stay.

I said something to my wife, she was so mad. I've said it in public settings. She cussed me out.

She came back and said, and now when I say it in front of other people, she's like, you know what, y' all.

He right.

What if we viewed.

When you get in a relationship with a man and y' all are gonna be monogamous, right?

And you agree that the only person he's gonna have sex with, both now and pre marriage, during marriage, for the rest of y' all lives, the only way he's gonna have a sexual outlet is through you.

And you arbitrarily decide for a couple weeks,

for a couple months,

for a few years that for whatever reason,

I'm not feeling it, I'm not attracted to him anymore. I don't love him anymore. I'm not this, I'm not going that.

When he steps out of the relationship and he's moved away from the agreement to practice his sexual exclusivity with just you,

that is cheating.

But when you have an agreement that this man and you two are going to do this, and he can only get access from you,

and you omit,

withhold sex,

especially if you weaponize it,

you're being unfaithful.

And what if men broke up with women and girlfriends and wives when they're sexually unfaithful for more than two weeks?

I bet the data.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And not for physical, you know, child labor or some physical situation. Just because.

Because. Just because. That's what they. That's.

What if men left relationships with all these women that are being sexually unfaithful?

That is the equivalent for us.

You are being unfaithful when you obligate this man to only come to you for sex,

and he can't have access to it because you've weaponized the ability for him to do it.

Because he didn't take out the trash, because he didn't get the right flowers, because he wasn't romantic enough, because of this, because of that. When you're tired, your *** still go to work.

When you're frustrated at work with your boss, you still respect them,

you still follow the rules.

You know, like in every other area of life, you figure out a way to still show up.

But then when it comes to this particular area where he can't go to.

When you don't want to cook, he can order takeout, he can order delivery.

When you don't want to clean, he can hire somebody to come in and clean.

But when this area that you've made that says he can only get it from you, you don't show up in what if that's an area of unfaithfulness that's heavily contributing to this whole situation.

Speaker A: And I do agree with you 100% to an extent.

I think two weeks, very dramatic with women's hormones. Like, we get a little bit nuts sometimes, and that's just how we are.

Speaker C: But setting the bar high for my.

Speaker A: Man, you are really.

Speaker C: From there. I'm not starting at a month. Like two weeks, then we can negotiate.

Speaker A: That's totally, totally what I, I think that is really interesting. Like, do you.

If, if they're like, let's say it's a month,

right? Like, which I would say is a long time to not have sex with your partner. Like, I would agree that it's a long time,

obviously, like even two weeks is. I also agree that that's a long time. I don't think it's a divorce reason, but I would agree it's a while.

What like, would you be like, why doesn't the woman allow him,

like, allow him to go see another woman? Or why doesn't the man ask to go see another woman, let's say a sex worker or, or something like that?

Speaker C: Because you were born in a society where monogamy and monogamous relationships are normalized. That's the only difference.

And you'll be shamed by the other women if they find out something's going on. If you were born in a society or culture where it was very normal for a man to have a concubine or have one or two or three women that, you know, sister wives or whatever.

And this is normal. It's natural. It's been happening for 500 years in your culture. This wouldn't even be a conversation.

Wouldn't even be a conversation.

So the reality is in Western culture, as we become more individualistic, less communal,

less.

We're all about self and what we want in our desires. Not even about our kids, about the man or about the family or the nuclear,

this is the consequence. There's pros and cons to all of this.

No matter which side of the aisle you pick,

this is just the one where my interest is more so on the outcomes.

Are women in mass,

globally, in Western countries getting the outcomes they say they want?

If they're unmarried and they want to be,

they're single, but they don't want to be.

They want kids but can't find a guy to do it.

And,

and they're Constantly in competition, in comparison mode with the women around them.

The reality is the market's already moved in a direction where women are sharing men, whether they realize it or not.

You are.

You're sharing women. When he's cheating,

you're sharing them. In Atlanta, Georgia, I had a woman last year.

We were at a friend's house, and we were all hanging out, and she was saying that the dating market is so skewed because a huge percentage of the men that go down to Atlanta and live in Atlanta are gay or bi.

So the pool, the ratio of men to women is like heterosexual men is like 10 to 1.

These guys are going on dates with three women simultaneously in Atlanta.

Speaker B: Wow.

Speaker C: Everything's out. What he got the lie for?

That's not cheating because he.

He's in an environment where he now realizes what. Is that what it is?

And she realizes he needs to make look and be a certain level for me to be okay with something like this. And they're fine.

That's actually what a lot of human history is actually resemble.

The more desirable a man was in every ancient culture,

was he following the rules that y' all are trying to put on men today.

The equivalent,

if you are a top 1% man,

you're 6ft tall,

you make six figures.

And if you are white,

black,

or Hispanic,

you are desired by 80% of women that's on the planet.

Period.

Period.

It's Asian men who struggle the most.

And then when you flip it,

Asian women, depending on the stat, are usually number one in most desirability globally.

Then white women, then Hispanic women, and then black women last.

So that's the stats. That's the truth.

It's not all great,

but if fathers and uncles weren't welcome to give you a heads up over the last decade,

you went the last decade through trial and error, right? Nobody does this. Nobody was doing this historically.

Trial and error,

recreational sex,

being liberated.

Listen, you could vote. You could own a home. You could rack up a credit card if you want to. There's a lot of great things that women have gotten access to, but there were also consequences that came from.

Of course,

I literally told you I had almost 75 women that wanted to match with me from two hours in one city in 30 minutes in another,

hadn't even gone through the city yet.

That's the reality of it. And guess who created that market and killed chivalry?

It wasn't us.

Yeah, it wasn't us. Like, there was. There was an era where I had to do and own and have so Much to even be at a space where I could approach your parents about wanting to talk to you.

You wanted that gone.

You want, I can choose.

Your only way of choice is through experiences.

And if you're going decade after decade, experiencing, experiencing, experiencing, is it making you healthier,

whole,

happier?

Or is it, or is it feeling? Are you making you feel more helpless,

hopeless? Like, what's wrong with me? What's wrong with the men? Like what's that was the issue your mate selection?

You get lucky if you find somebody.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Most people's experiences are yours, not Melanie's nowadays.

Speaker A: I know Mel is so lucky. She has her husband. He's the absolute best. I'm thankfully enjoying the go through of everything. Like, I don't have that angry woman mindset yet. Maybe hopefully never.

But just because I allow myself to kind of be present and allow myself to make connections organically instead of just online and it feels a lot better.

And I, I don't. I have a weird setup.

So it's just, I feel okay about what's happening right now. But you know, talk to me in five years to see if I want.

Okay. Sorry, what'd you say?

Speaker C: Do you want kids?

Speaker A: See, that's still it up and in the air for me. I don't.

I could be good either way. Like, it's not a, it's not like a thing. I know some women have like a real heartbeat of I want to be a mother.

As feminist as I am,

kids are in the card three. And I'm totally okay with that. But that's also like I see what my life, who I would want my partner to be and that would be an old man.

So there's a lot of factors that I'm going through and I,

I feel really sad for a lot of my young women friends who are still trying to be moms and you know, having to eggs and all of these things that are coming with that.

But I also see a lot of their freedoms, obviously, like the, the way that they're able to make money for themselves and their families and they're not able to be supported by a man.

Like they don't have to live with that. So there's obviously the goods and bads and I love everything you're saying. I think it's so great to get a male perspective, especially someone who's in the U.S.

i know you experience things a lot differently than we do up here in Canada.

Canada.

But it's so, it's, it's been really great. I know we, we've gone A little over time, which I love.

And I really want to say just appreciate everything. Everything you've given us. I know we've obviously talked a little bit about this. We do ask this of all of our guests that we have on this podcast.

And.

And it's just in the spirit of telling truth.

What is the one truth that you would tell your younger self?

Speaker C: Oh, my.

Oh,

yeah.

One thing. One truth that I would have told myself.

Use my 20s to be the best version of myself,

because when I hit 30,

I have the freedom and flexibility to do what I want in life.

I would have told myself something along those lines. I think I wouldn't have spent as much money.

I don't think I would have wasted much time.

I don't think I would have been as consumed with women and distracted by women.

I think I would have used my twenties way more appropriately to learn to grow, to build and be at a much further place financially if I had that level of focus in my 20s.

Um.

Speaker A: Yeah, I love that.

Speaker B: Thank you. That's great.

Speaker A: I. The twenties is the best, best little part of your life. You're growing the most. And we also. We usually get the knowledge when we are in our 30s. Right.

Speaker C: So it sounds crazy. It sounds crazy, but your 30s is your 20s with money.

Speaker A: Yeah, I've heard that quite a bit, actually.

Speaker C: It really is. And if you did that,

there's nothing you couldn't do that in your early 30s, early first five years of being 30 that you could have done in your 20s, but you have way more money, way more wealth, and way more access to a whole host of everything.

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker C: If. If I. And many people I know probably had approached things differently, usually by 28,

I'm like, all right, I got to get myself together kind of thing. And a lot of guys, that's. That's the case.

So, you know, I appreciate you, too,

for hearing all the good and bad things I was saying.

Speaker A: I really do believe that we like, and I think a lot, and there's so much polarizing ideas right now, and the most important thing I think we can do is talk to someone with a differing opinion.

And so it's so great for. For you to be on this podcast. I know. You know, we don't want to,

like, disagree too much. We love hearing another opinion. And I know you work in this space, so it's very interesting for us to hear,

and we would love to have you on again. I know we have so many more questions for you, and I'm sure our audience will have way More questions as well.

That they can. They did DMS and they can also DM you as well.

Yeah.

So great.

Speaker B: Thank you so much for time and yeah, it's so good to get a different perspective. Very healthy, I think.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: We don't have to agree, but we should listen to each other. And I don't mean you specifically, I mean any groups.

Just for goodness sake, just talk to people,

you know, and then maybe you'll figure it out rather than just being so rage talk.

Speaker C: Yeah. Like I said, thank you both genuinely and I loved it. I'm sure you two will rewatch it and be like, I hate him now.

Speaker A: Like, absolutely not.

Speaker B: Look, we talked to you for two hours. We didn't hate you.

Speaker C: Yeah,

you know what it is?

We'll also see how men respond to the less favorable things I said about them. About you gonna keep complaining and whining or you gonna actually change and adapt.

The women aren't going anywhere and they ain't changing.

So, you know, the reality is it's on us as men.

If we want to improve our lives and have better outcomes, we got to look inward. So my hope is that both sides kind of look inward and myself included.

I've had to make some really, really significant changes to get to the place and point that I am now.

And my biggest regret as a man was all the women who I had access to sexually,

that I may have unknowingly impacted their expectations and impacted their level of dissatisfaction with the men that came after me.

That's my biggest regret ever. When you're young, when you're a teenager, it's all about,

did you get her? Did you get the body count? Did you do this? Did you do that?

When you get older and you realize the market you're talking about, you contributed to.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: That's a huge amount of self reflection, though. So I really applaud you for that because not a lot of men have.

Are able to do that for themselves at this point. So.

Speaker C: Yeah, and it didn't.

The experience is cool and all, but it, it made everything substantially harder. Relationships, faithfulness,

consistency,

the, the, the. The mindset of wanting to quit versus stay like you're hardwired based on your track record.

And it's a daily grind to go against evolution,

biology,

society,

the culture.

It's the constant grind to try to be better than you were yesterday as a man.

And my hope is that being a guy, that maybe some people will think, well, he doesn't look too bad, he ain't too ugly. I'm telling you, the market is crazy.

And the things I'm kind of giving you a heads up about, if I was your older brother,

uncle, a friend,

this is the harsh reality of what it is and how men who have money, who make, who are decent, good looking or really good looking,

this is, this is the world that they're.

The world is their oyster.

And I really, really want everybody,

the men who aren't there and the women who still want to find a partner.

You gotta, you gotta go on with eyes wide open.

And my hope is that through podcasts like this, I can have some type of positive impact to where people, men and women, could just make overall better decisions and that families can kind of get back together and stay together.

Speaker A: Love that.

Speaker B: That's very nice.

Speaker A: Really love that.

Thank you so much again, Jeff.

Obviously we'll plug you at the beginning, we'll plug you at the end if you want to. Just remind everyone where they can find you if they would like to for your socials and your podcast.

Speaker C: Awesome. So Instagram it is Ask a Brother, which is B R O T H A but my personal is by B Y T h e e St. James.

Those are my two Instagrams and if people post questions, I'll probably forward it to these ladies to see if we talk about it again. But I genuinely enjoyed it and I'm excited to enter this space and hopefully both speaking truth,

clinical and just my own personal experience,

I'm providing a perspective and lens that maybe people just didn't realize exists.

Speaker B: Amazing. Thank you very much for your time.

Speaker A: Thank you so much. And we'll see you soon, very soon, hopefully. And hopefully, you know,

so happy about you and your new family. So keep on keeping on raising good kids.

Speaker B: Thank you.

Speaker A: Thanks, Jeff.

Speaker B: Bye.

Thanks so much for listening. Please rate and review this podcast and follow us on social at sharingmytruthpod and leave us a voicemail on our website sharingmytruth.com to share your stories and experiences with us.

We'll see you next time.

Speaker A: Bye. Bye.