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Episode 17  - The truth about Micro-Cheating
Melany Krangle & Suzie Sheckter

Speaker A: Welcome to sharing my truth with Mel and Suzie, the uncensored version where we bear it all.

Speaker B: We do 1234. All right.

Speaker A: Welcome back. Welcome back to sharing my truth. How are you, Mel? Hi, babes.

Speaker B: Hello, darling. Hello. How are you? Good.

Speaker A: You seem well.

Speaker B: I'm fabulous.

Speaker A: Really?

Speaker B: Yeah, really fabulous. Pretty fabulous.

Speaker A: I heard you bunked your head or no, you ought to bunked my head.

Speaker B: No. Yeah, I burnt my head with my new roller set, so I'm trying to be like, cool and Gen Z mum that I am. And I bought myself some hot rollers because I'm into doing my rollers because it dropped down.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And then I bought a really cheap set. I thought, Well, I'm not going to like these and I can't be asked. But I thought, no, I'm going to do it. And then they got so ******* hot because I probably forgot to unplug them, put them in, and then it fell down and burnt my head, which is really not glamorous.

Speaker A: You look great, though. I can't even tell.

Speaker B: I think it's fun. I got that cream on in the nick of time. Very expensive French cream. And it works wonderful.

Speaker A: Vaseline.

Speaker B: Vaseline.

Speaker A: Is that the expensive French cream?

Speaker B: No, it is actually French. From France. From France.

Speaker A: Anyway, well, good. I'm glad you're okay.

Speaker B: Thank you. Well, I mean, I've survived.

Speaker A: I mean, some of the people on TikTok were not okay, though, with our videos.

Speaker B: I love the tickety tok Community.

Speaker A: I know my TikTok Queen is here.

Speaker B: To I learn so much from it.

Speaker A: I know you are. It's incredible. Like I am barely on TikTok. You are the one posting everything and making it all hilarious. And I have to tell our listeners because it's really funny. And if you guys don't follow us on TikTok, follow us on TikTok. Please follow us on Instagram. It really helps us make sure you rate and review this podcast. It really helps everyone find us and build this amazing community that we're trying to build as well. But yeah, if you guys don't follow us on TikTok, it's really, really funny. So Mel posted, she's just, like, figuring things out. Going on Cap cut.

Speaker B: Going on. I have a Gen XF again.

Speaker A: Exactly. And you're doing quite a job, seriously. So what you posted today about it was like and so.

Speaker B: Listen to the fantasy episode I Feel My Best Sexy.

Speaker A: It was amazing. I absolutely got turned on a little bit, I'm embarrassed to say. And what the image you had posted is from, like, Capco, right?

Speaker B: Yeah, it's a template.

Speaker A: It's a template and it's with and you didn't know what it was from?

Speaker B: No, I just saw it looked like a fantasy. I'm like a strange man.

Speaker A: So. It's from American Psycho.

Speaker B: Yeah. It's not great.

Speaker A: And you're like, what is that? This is literally a movie where this man is a narcissist.

Speaker B: So it's pretty good for fantasies. I didn't want the other bit. No, the murdering women bit.

Speaker A: You just wanted the morning routine.

Speaker B: Yeah, and that was in the template. To be fair to me. You can't change that bit. It's in the template.

Speaker A: Of course not. I just thought it was so funny. And honestly, it is kind of a fantasy.

Speaker B: He looked like a fantasy man.

Speaker A: He's definitely a fantasy man.

Speaker B: Like Christian Bale. That's exactly all right. Okay. And you know, he's British.

Speaker A: Oh, he's sexy as hell.

Speaker B: And I showed my husband, and he's like, what the hell is that? Some guy in a lose underwear? That's really no, I don't think so. He doesn't watch movies.

Speaker A: You two have to see the movie.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: And then you'll maybe understand how funny this is.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: It's really good. But yeah. Anyways, so that was on TikTok. Also, people on TikTok are getting really upset with us. Not upset, but they're having comment fights on our videos about microcheating and polyamory.

Speaker B: But one guy thought it was polygamy.

Speaker A: Polygamy. Those things.

Speaker B: There's a very sea of difference between those two things.

Speaker A: Definitely microcheating. I mean, this is a hard one because we also disagree. We could be in a little TikTok fight about that. We do about yeah. I mean, microcheating, how far or not can you go? And is it really cheating if you're just texting someone who you do not ever are going to sleep with, ever? You may never even meet them. They may be across the ******* world, and it turns you on a bit, and you're like, I just got to get my rocks out with this completely random nonsensical person. Absolutely. And just kind of do that. What is that?

Speaker B: Well, that's a good point because I hadn't really thought about it like that. What I thought about it more is, like, we talked in our last episode, Fantasies, where if you're, like, thinking about somebody else, obviously it's your fantasy and that's your private world in your head. And of course, that's obviously not cheating because you could be fantasizing about having sex with your husband's best mate or whatever, or whatever it is. But micro cheating, supposedly, according to Google, which of course, we have to believe is that you are cheating on, well, you're online, so you're talking to somebody online in a sexual manner. So, I mean, I think we talked about a write in we had a little while ago where somebody was married, but they were talking to somebody online, but they felt they'd fallen in love with that person. And then you're just like, what are you doing? There are these really sort of gray lines. My question would be whenever you're doing my thing would be whenever you're doing something in a sexual manner or in an amorous manner with somebody else that is not your partner secretly and not telling them, we enter a problematic thing.

Speaker A: Yeah, but if it's the same thing, like we said in our last episode, about fantasies and you're a complete because I think a lot of people are a very different person online than they are in their real life.

Speaker B: This is where I disagree. This is a generational thing, right?

Speaker A: Well, yeah. So let's just say you're a completely different person online. So you have all these weird, let's say, so random. Let's say you're a furry and you're online and you're sexing up some fox lady all the way in Australia.

Speaker B: What the hell's a fox lady?

Speaker A: Like a furry?

Speaker B: I did see this term somewhere. What the hell does that is that when you what, you fantasize or want to have it off with animals?

Speaker A: No, it's like you want to dress up as an animal. You want to dress up you want to dress up as an animal. It's why have sex with other people who are dressed up as animals? Not with animals. And if people are furries out there and they're listening, you can also if I got that wrong, you can let me know.

Speaker B: Yeah, please let me know.

Speaker A: But I'm pretty sure that's exactly how it is. I am not part of the furry.

Speaker B: Community, but thanks for clearing that.

Speaker A: I do not judge them, and I know you do, too.

Speaker B: I do.

Speaker A: In a weird way.

Speaker B: In a weird way. I really do. I am a pretty open minded person. Okay.

Speaker A: But yes, listen to what I'm saying. Let's say you just, like, you don't actually you love your partner so much.

Speaker B: You'Re with a partner, and they're not a furry.

Speaker A: They're not a furry, but they check your boxes also. A furry is just a really weird also thing. But I just thought this is a completely different person online, and yeah. You're living out kind of a fantasy. You're kind of living out a different part of you online. And is that micro cheating? It's kind of ****.

Speaker B: Yeah, I understand that. So there's two parts to this. Would you like my two?

Speaker A: Absolutely. Give me a two part.

Speaker B: So the first part, like, you talked about your life in the real world and your life in the digital world. Yes. I do think that is a huge generational gap between particularly Gen X, because Gen X obviously is the start sort of the inventors of most of the **** on the Internet. Absolutely. But we lived our entire I mean, I was what? When did I first start using the interweb? I mean, I must have been in my interweb. In the interweb. There was no email in my first job, like, when I was, like my first real job, sort of after school, after college. So I wasn't using email in my 25, 26 I'm trying to think when the hell we start first started using the Internet. Exactly. I mean, I didn't have a mobile phone until I was 25, and that's with the first ones, the brick things.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And then, of course, our generation was the first Facebook generation. And then we're the early adopters of all the technology, but later on in our 30s or whatever. So most gen Xers all the gen Xers I know are very technical. They all know how to use everything, but they're perfectly capable of living without anything because we did for so long into our adulthood. Unlike you, you were very young, right? So then that meant that we had and this sounds strange and not meant to be patronizing, but we had our identity totally outside of the digital world. So we had an identity that had nothing to do with being digital because it didn't exist. Like, even we've talked about this Pamela Anderson before, and how this idea that her video was going to go out onto the World Wide Web, as it was called. It's hilarious. It was really slow, and they had to go dial up. That was good, wasn't it? That was very and nobody really had a vague inkling of what it could do because it hadn't existed before. So it's like my identity online and my identity in person is exactly the same, right? I don't go online, and I know there are some complete wankers who go online and talk absolute *****, and they troll people, and they're gross and revolting, of course. And many of those are probably Gen X.

Speaker A: You don't even know those people, don't know who you are online.

Speaker B: Exactly. But I think generally, I think it's a generalization come at me, if you will, and tell me differently, but I think most Gen X's, you're the same person. Because I've noticed this with my Gen Z children is that they will be who they are in the real world, as it were. But then things will happen. Not them particularly, but we've had incidents with some nasty things happening from other.

Speaker A: Kids, they say all sorts of horrible cyberbullying.

Speaker B: Yeah, it's happened to my kids. It's happened to other kids at school, and really nasty stuff that they would never, ever dream of saying in real life. But they say it online, and they think somehow because it's online, they're not going to get kicked out of school. All those kids got kicked out of school or suspended temporarily or whatever, but they somehow in their head think, well, the stuff that I live in, the real world has a consequence, but it doesn't online. And I find that so peculiar because they've grown up with this. Whereas I think most Gen X's, they're using technology to be convenient. I'm not using it because I need it for everything. So there's tons of things like we've talked about. I mean, lots Spotify, lots of my friends have Spotify. I don't particularly use it that much. I use Apple a lot, so I could add for Apple there. But, I mean, it's like I use technology to make things faster for things that I used to do, that used.

Speaker A: To take like cheating.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's a good point. That used to take me forever. But I don't have a digital identity. I'm definitely not a furry online either.

Speaker A: Well, that's what I'm saying.

Speaker B: But I do get it. I get what you're saying.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So maybe I previously said that that's cheating and maybe that was too much of a generic.

Speaker A: It's hard, right? Because it's like, what is cheating in that sense? If you're meeting not meeting people, but like talking to them online and you are like, I don't know these stupid things. Do you know Omega?

Speaker B: No.

Speaker A: Okay. It's really ******* stupid. So you're going online, you're going on your computer. This is the thing. When I was in high school, or like junior high too, you'd go on your computer and you would go on there with your friends and you just go online. You don't have to sign up or anything. You just go onto it. You have your webcam because it was a webcam back then, right? And then the other people from anywhere in the world also are online. And you got to just go to chats, right, with the video.

Speaker B: Okay?

Speaker A: And so either you can talk or you can type. And it's mostly dicks.

Speaker B: Nice.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's mostly dicks.

Speaker B: Lovely.

Speaker A: And you're supposed to be obviously 18 to go on there.

Speaker B: But like, let's ******* honest with men.

Speaker A: Having to show their genitals just the way it is. I do not know of the **** fix. Everyone do not know. But yeah, if a guy was like, I need to show my **** to the world, I have to go on Omega and show my **** to whoever will look at it. Is that microchating and is that cheating at all?

Speaker B: You're like taking it. This is the thing though.

Speaker A: There's so many different ways nowadays to do this.

Speaker B: I get what you're saying. I just think that if you are going online with the intent and possibly not starting out with the intent, but when you sort of start chatting to somebody and it's getting very intense and you're having a sort of emotional exchange, if you get my drift. So there is intent there. Like you are intentionally talking to somebody else in a kind of sexual, amorous, whatever you want to call it, way on a protracted basis. I think there's an element of cheating there.

Speaker A: Yeah, I don't disagree with that. I think it's all about the intention. And where does that come from? What are you trying to do? Are you trying to get away from your relationship, meet someone else, escape?

Speaker B: Which is what affairs are a lot of the time. It's about escaping the reality. Whether it's like you hate your partner or that you are just stressed or it could be any number of things, but you're trying to escape from something 100%. And also the other thing is if your partner found out that you were having this conversation or exchange or whatever the hell you want to call it online, even if you've never seen each other, would they get upset? Yeah, I think you sort of have your answer then if you're keeping it secret because, you know, if they found out, they'd be like, what the hell are you doing? Then I think you've kind of got your answer. That's kind of what I mean by it. I mean, of course, when we talked about fantasies, we talked about the fact that if you have fantasies, of course a certain amount of them, you're going to keep to yourself. You are allowed as an individual in whatever relationship you're in, however long that is, to have things that are yours. And that's perfectly fine and you can have thoughts. But when it is sort of about being amorous sexual, I kind of think you need to share that. Yeah. Otherwise I sort of think, what's the point?

Speaker A: It's just weird because it's like, I think I think girls and guys do this. I think, let's be honest, men do this more. But when men, let's just say they'll slide into a DM of a hot girl, maybe they'll have a girlfriend still. Or they're following hot girls.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: And that does do something. Even I get uncomfortable with that if my boyfriend disrespect it's just like if you're literally like women on Instagram, power to them, 100% not hating on the women doing this. Of course not. But I think it's like if your man is just looking at photos of women all day long that aren't you and are super sexual, then that does something to their brain and their opinion of you and your body. I don't think they realize it, but it's like, yeah, I don't think it's normal for a man to be able to see women sexual nude almost all day long on a completely legal platform.

Speaker B: I mean, it's challenging. I get it. It's a challenge that didn't exist for our generation and I do understand that. But I actually saw something on my favorite platform. TikTok. Yeah, I can't remember. It was another podcast, a male podcast and I can't remember and I'm sorry, I can't do an ad for you because I can't remember what you were called. But anyway, there was a guy saying exactly that, that he did that to his girlfriend. He was like looking at pictures and he would heart them and like them, and he just didn't think about it and didn't think that it was an issue. And then she obviously lost her ****. And then he kind of got it like, oh, I'm really sorry. And then I think she dumped him. But he learnt his lesson. At least she dumped them, but he learnt that. Oh, I didn't realize.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Because it's sort of there. And I get that that's a problem, instagram, all this stuff. It's there. And there's a lot of people with not a lot of clothing on. So if you're a man, you're going to look at it. But it's a bit different if you're just like, oh, yeah, she's cute, blah, blah, blah. You scroll through, you're not, like, intently.

Speaker A: And I like to comment. It's like, weird.

Speaker B: Right? Sorry, that's weird.

Speaker A: And you don't know them.

Speaker B: You need to learn, be a bit more up to date with your etiquette there on social media. God, I mean, I know I would never do that.

Speaker A: Mama mel knows.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: Mama mel knows.

Speaker B: You've got to be careful. And the other thing, actually, on the subject of cheating is this thing that I've heard so many times now when people are with a partner and then they go that they're sort of not with their partner and then something happens somewhere and with somebody else, whatever level that is. And then that person takes a picture or knows their social media and then stalks the other part, the partner. That is the massive danger of, well, A, being a moron and giving out your social media details to somebody. But I mean, well, it's all there. It's all there. Exactly. But, I mean, that is amazing that people don't use their head in that respect and that it's scary that you can track people down and you can find them and you can blow people's lives up in that respect. But, yeah, going back to what we're talking about, that's totally disrespectful, looking at other people. So there are levels.

Speaker A: Like, there are levels that's that's the whole thing. It's like, what do you feel is microcheating what is actual cheating? Or I'm not saying microcheating isn't, but you have to put your boundaries up right away to your partner and you have to talk about that together, because communication, if you don't bring that up to your partner, then exactly how are they going to know how you feel? And that also brings us to it. Does someone who wrote into us?

Speaker B: They did today. They did.

Speaker A: At the end of last year, my partner had sex with someone on a bachelor party. He confessed as soon as he got home and seems to think his owning up to it meant I shouldn't be angry or hurt or want to know more. Whenever I bring it up, he says I need to move on and forget about it. Oh, my God. Help. Did we get all that?

Speaker B: Yeah. Okay.

Speaker A: That's a lot.

Speaker B: It is a lot. I think there are two sides to this.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: He came and did came. He admitted to what he did.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: So that is something yes, but from her point of view, I do see that he came home and he confessed, and then he kind of thought it's a bit like going into the confession box. He thought that if he told her, then that's fine. He's absolved. That's not how it works. Right. He did admit to it, but it doesn't absolve it. However, at the time, this woman should, in my opinion, have said, okay, but we need to talk about, we need to work on this. The talking should have happened then. Yeah, obviously we're not sure because it's kind of a brief story somebody sent us, but it sounds to me like nothing happened at the time. They just spoke about it, they've moved on, and of course she still got a problem with it. And he's just like, Get over yourself, I've already told you. And so he's wrong and she's wrong as far as I'm concerned. She should have made him talk about it, and if she had an issue, then she had to deal with it at the time because it's a bit late now. He also is wrong, because saying it out loud doesn't mean it didn't happen. Mate. It did happen, and it doesn't absolve you from what you did by, as you would put it, getting your willy wet or whatever you say.

Speaker A: Getting your **** wet.

Speaker B: ****. ****, sorry. ****. Wrong terminology. But you know what I'm saying. So I think they're both actually wrong. Yes. And of course she's never going to trust him ever again. I mean, I don't think I would.

Speaker A: No, I mean, this it's a weird situation, right? Because he obviously did something wrong, because he knew it was wrong, because he admitted to it. Right. And him doing that, we don't know this full situation. He was probably really drunk. His friends probably pressured him into it as well. He probably wanted to do it or he wouldn't have done it. I don't think this is a sexual assault. So he obviously wanted to do this. And so, yeah, I do commend him that he even owned up to it, because that's probably very hard to do and rare, for sure. I'm thinking that if they didn't have a conversation about it right away, then she might have been in shock.

Speaker B: Oh, yeah. I mean, I think that's a lot.

Speaker A: Of it, because that's something we don't know how long they've been together, but that's a hard thing to wrap your head around. It's like, oh, my God, you just slept with someone random, you're never going to see them again. It's like you're in another relationship. It's like, oh, you slept with someone one time. What does this mean for me?

Speaker B: Of course one.

Speaker A: Did you get SDI checked? Terrifying.

Speaker B: Definitely. Yeah.

Speaker A: Especially if you're just out and about. And the fact that he doesn't want to talk about it when she wants to talk about it, that's a red flag. You can't just not talk about it when she's asking. Can't just get over it.

Speaker B: Obviously. I mean, I'm going to be direct here. He's being a bit of a **** about it, 100%. You did the bad deed, mate. If she needs to talk about it until the flaming cows come home, you're going to talk about it.

Speaker A: If you still want to beat it with her.

Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. It's like, you've done this, you owned up to it, you've got to take it. And, you know, this sort of like this concept, I think people think that, oh, if I say sorry, like, haven't you heard that? But I said sorry. In fact, it happened to me the other day. I went to a restaurant. Completely got nothing to do with this. The guy was like 40, 40 minutes late with the food. And then he came up and said, I'm really sorry I didn't put your order in. And you're like, the sorry, okay? But it doesn't absolve you from the fact that I've been sitting here for 40 ******* minutes. Yeah, but you know this concept today that everyone just says, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

Speaker A: That's like, I don't forgive you.

Speaker B: Exactly.

Speaker A: Where are my French fries, ************?

Speaker B: Thank you. Exactly. But I mean, it's a bit like, oh, if I say sorry, it gets me out of it. If I say sorry I nicked your car, or Sorry I stole your girlfriend, or Sorry, but I said sorry. Actually, this guy said that this way to say I said sorry, though I still got no food. Anyway, that's a complete aside.

Speaker A: But it's true, though, isn't mel is hungry, okay? She's been doing this intermittent fasting.

Speaker B: I know.

Speaker A: I'm, like, about to eat a moment of time.

Speaker B: I can't eat now for another 16 hours.

Speaker A: No, I can't deal with that.

Speaker B: Sorry, everyone. Am I coming across?

Speaker A: No, you're fine. I totally understand this. Actually, the same thing happened to me and I was like we were just, like, so confused. We're like, dude. Anyways, we will get into the sorry does not say anything unless the person forgives you.

Speaker B: Exactly.

Speaker A: That's how that works.

Speaker B: Sounds like he thought, Right, well, I've done it. Done it now. Which you have. It's a bit late. You've dipped your wicked, you dipped your wick. Yeah, it's all too late. But he obviously has in his head, I bet all his friends said to him, don't tell them. Don't say anything. Just keep it quiet, blah, blah, blah. And he's like, no, I'm going to do the right thing. I'm going to say something. But when you say something, you have to realize the collateral consequences of the fact you're really going to hurt her. And it's awful. So you have to be it. You have to talk about this. If you don't talk about this, how can this ever go away? I don't understand that. How can he ever go anywhere, like, with his friends again on a sort of mates weekend and her not go, oh my God, what's going to happen?

Speaker A: 100%. And then it's also like, what if she let's say she cheats on him because she's like, I want to get back. Yeah, exactly. I don't think this person is like this, but if she was and she wanted to be like, **** you. I'm going to get back at you. And then she admitted to him, she was like, so I actually slept with this guy. I was on a bachelorette party, slept with this guy. Sorry. And what is he supposed to say?

Speaker B: I know, it's all very messed up.

Speaker A: That's super ****** up.

Speaker B: But then here you go. Right?

Speaker A: Like, should he have told her anyway?

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, this is like this.

Speaker A: Whole where does honesty go?

Speaker B: Well, yeah, there is that. But I think our whole conversation here is about what is cheating. Is it the physical? Is it the emotional? Is it both? Is it what is it exactly? And as far as I'm concerned, it is about the intent. And I think about what I would be upset about, and I would be upset about definitely about the physical, because just the concept of different fluids is not cool. I really don't like that. I'm not into that. And then if you compounded that by you've fallen in love with somebody in order to fall in somebody else means you've kind of either completely fallen out of love with me or you've fallen out of love a little less with me. Right. And that's unbelievably hurtful because it doesn't matter what the circumstances are, you still feel like you weren't enough. And that's your feet. That's going to be your feeling, isn't it? And that's very hurtful. So this thing about if it's only physical and only happened once, do you say anything? I mean, that it's a very loaded question. It's very difficult. Yeah, I don't know. Obviously, you always want to think that honesty is the best policy, but I don't know. I think you should also think about why did you do it? Did you do it because there is something wrong at home and you're not getting your needs met?

Speaker A: Rocks off.

Speaker B: Absolutely. Is it because you were a bit **** faced and she was nice looking and 100% you're a bloke and whatever, most likely, or what is it? I mean, you must know.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: So what's so funny is actually today I was scrolling Instagram and do you follow humans of NY?

Speaker B: No. Oh, I think I do. Is that where they stop people in the street, they ask them how they met?

Speaker A: He's a photographer.

Speaker B: Yes. He's done for many years another one.

Speaker A: But I know, and he's amazing, and he will speak to anyone and anyone who will tell their story to him, and he'll take these amazing photos. And so the post he had I think it was his post today was obviously this man who didn't want to show his face. It was, like, of his arm. And the story was that he pretty much says he's like, I love my wife. She would drop everything for me. But my girlfriend is someone who I've just like, I can't stop. Like, I need her that moment. I need her that second. Like, there's just no one is supposed to check all your boxes. Like, I need this person. And then he's like, I've just always been like. This. When I met my wife, I was with another girlfriend and he was like, she should know that I was going to be like this. He said that he had told her he got caught or something. I'm taking this out of this little blurb of New York, but he had told her that. Or he got caught. Sorry. He got caught and he was stupid and drugged. He got caught and she found his phone or something, looked at some texts or whatever it was, and they went to therapy about it. And then she said in therapy, she's like, why don't you talk to me like that? Why don't you do the things with me like that? And he's like, it's different. Two people can't one person is not supposed to. Like I said, check all your boxes. Like he says in the post. I was looking at all the comments and all the comments are like, he's such a ************, he's such a ****. I can't believe that he's doing this. This woman should leave him. And I'm like, ****. This guy obviously has problems, but he has been like this his entire, let's say, life. His wife, I'm assuming, knew that he was kind of like this, not saying, not victim shaming at all. Like, obviously, I don't know what it's like in their actual relationship. And I don't know if he's happy, er, with a girlfriend and a wife. That sounds stressful as ****, but yeah, I don't know. It doesn't obviously work for her. She obviously is not knowing. And like we've said, this is a non monogamous it's not ethically. Sorry. It's not ethically. Non monogamous.

Speaker B: She doesn't know it.

Speaker A: Exactly. So it's like, where does that go? You know what I mean?

Speaker B: My comment about that would be that I get it. He's probably not a bad guy. And I think particularly with male female relationships, when women meet men, because they were the cheaty, like that he was cheating on his former partner and he met her, I think generally they always think that they're going to sort of be the one it was, yeah, because they hadn't met me kind of thing. So they're surprised that they then cheat on them. And I would say, and I know this is a little bit old fashioned, but I do think sort of, once a cheater, always a cheater.

Speaker A: I absolutely agree with that.

Speaker B: I think that's kind of in your psyche. I just think that what particularly it happens in male female relationships, it's not always the man. It's not always a man. It's just sort of urban myth, is that we've made it always the man. Maybe it's probably proportionally more men than women. And biology wise men with all the little guys swimming around down there, they've got to get it out kind of thing. They want biologically, I guess the need to cheat is probably biologically more. Somebody can correct me on that.

Speaker A: We've also talked about in our polyamory episode that it actually is something in your genes, in your blood. There is literally DNA that says possibly you're a monogamous person or not.

Speaker B: Yeah, possibly. Yeah. It's science. You love science. Okay, yeah, I do love I like a bit of science. No, but I just think if he knew, he knew it would hurt his wife. He knew that was wrong. He knew it was wrong.

Speaker A: Not saying he's not being selfish 100%. He's being selfish right now and doing this and hurting someone. He could just break up with this woman.

Speaker B: Not the girlfriend.

Speaker A: Well, he could break up with the wife.

Speaker B: Yeah. You know what I mean? But that's the thing of not have gone with the girlfriend.

Speaker A: I'm pretty sure the girlfriend has a husband as well.

Speaker B: Right? Yeah. It's like there is an element of control. Actually, I forgot to tell you this this weekend. Did you see this show on Netflix called Obsession? Is it called obsession.

Speaker A: No.

Speaker B: So you need to watch it. Okay, I'll watch it. I'm cheesy. It's a bit cheesy. I'm very sorry for who? It's actually a British show, but it is basically about that a man who is sort of happily married, has a happy family life, he's got a very illustrious career. So is his wife. Kind of all the on paper, all the bits and bows are ticked. And he meets this woman and how do I not give it away?

Speaker A: I'm sure it's obvious, right?

Speaker B: This woman. Yeah, but this woman is his son's girlfriend.

Speaker A: Oh, ****.

Speaker B: And then he becomes completely obsessed with her, and then it's like, terrible at the end.

Speaker A: Oh, my God.

Speaker B: And I do think that is possible. He becomes so obsessed with her, so obsessive, and the relationship is obsessed on on many levels. It's about obsession, their relationship and control and all of that. And obviously in some way in his life, he needs that. But he was happy with his wife, and his wife was in love with and it's just awful. The whole thing is just a giant mess, and he almost doesn't care about what he's doing to his son. He needs this woman. He needs it. However, he's a grown man. I'm sorry. You are a grown man. You may see a woman or meet a woman and think, oh, my God, and be obsessed, but you have to kind of control yourself.

Speaker A: That's crazy. I'm going to watch it.

Speaker B: It's terrible. Yeah. And it doesn't end well.

Speaker A: I can understand that.

Speaker B: Things never end well. And whenever people are lying, it never ends well. I've told you the story. My father was a serial cheater. Everyone, prostitutes, lovers, you name it. Like, everyone, people everywhere. My nannies teach it. Like, lots of people. I mean, the end is probably the list goes from here until wherever. But my mother found out that my father was having an affair with my now stepmother because she found a receipt in the boot or the trunk, you call it the trunk of my dad's car because she was getting something, and it was a receipt for a fridge. It's very sexy and glamorous that she didn't own. And she's like, Why did you buy this fridge? Who's this fridge? And she knew he didn't have a fridge in the office in those days. He didn't do that sort of thing. It's like, where's the fridge? And then he had to basically say, well, actually, my other wife woman in this other girlfriend, there's a fridge I bought for her. And that is how it came out. And then the whole thing, and it literally was it blew up. And that night they had the biggest row I think I've ever heard then and since and forever, and it was horrible and lots of screaming that I heard as a child. But, I mean, the point is, he was keeping it secret. He was doing all this stuff that he knew was wrong, not telling his wife who he had his family with. And what happens? The whole thing blows up. The fact that he's with her now is kind of irrelevant. But yeah, it's just if you are doing something in secret and you're not doing partner and you're not telling them and they find out, I mean, it's betrayal. So that's what I think is like, I think the line, like, we've talked about lots of different things here online, and if you're sort of flirting or whatever you're doing, where is the line of betrayal? And maybe some people, everyone can tell us what they think, their line of betrayal. I think betrayal is emotional and physical. I don't think you actually physically have to touch or have sex with somebody to betray them because your intent can be there to betray them. Like you're actually having a relationship. I just think it's very hurtful. And I think if you think your partner would be hurt if they found this out, that you're doing this thing in secret, I think you've got your answer. You know you're doing something you shouldn't be doing. And if you are doing that and you need that, you need to perhaps ask yourself some questions. Why are you in this? What is this relationship for?

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, it can be so complicated. Like, obviously, like your father, which is kind of a bad example because he's a serial cheater, and I'm sure he had other issues as well, but he has many issues, so sorry, but I lost my train of thought of here. But yeah, so it's just kind of like, well, obviously and just like this man from Humans of NY, the Post, this man was getting something he couldn't get from his person.

Speaker B: I understand that.

Speaker A: Find it somewhere else.

Speaker B: I do get that.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: We are human. Sorry.

Speaker A: No, it's fine. I'm just going to say, like, obviously we're talking about men, but obviously women do it too.

Speaker B: Of course they do. I mean, this myth that women don't cheat. I always say this. I lived in Italy for many years and it was an Italian bib. And as a sort of saying, because people always think that in Italy men are like, they marry their wives and then they go off and cheat. I think they think about that, about French men or Italian. It's sort of the Mediterranean. But people always say in Italy, hang on, if the man is cheating with another woman and we're always saying it's the men who are wrong, who are they cheating? The person they're cheating with. If it's a what she's cheating like, who are all these women who are cheating? And they're sure as hell not all single. They must be married. So then you start to think, do you understand? You're following my train of thought. Am I making any sense at all?

Speaker A: Of course.

Speaker B: And so it's like then the blame is like somehow I think it has become this thing that we always say it's men's fault. It's men who are doing it well. If they're in having a heterosexual affair with a heterosexual relationship, they're cheating with a ****** woman. Who's that woman? She's cheating 100%. And I don't care if that woman isn't married and he's married. She still shouldn't be doing that. If she knows he's married, obviously it's a bigger deal his life is if he's married and has kids or whatever's going on. And she doesn't. She's single, but she's basically trying to pull that man away from his relationship.

Speaker A: But that's what happens all the time. Women love it.

Speaker B: I know they do.

Speaker A: They love it. It's a game. It's exciting. It's like they believe this man likes me better.

Speaker B: Oh, my God. It's a huge thing and it's a huge self. It's the thing, though, with women, that we lie to each other, that we all work female power and we're all in this thing together and it's absolute bullshit. Women have got the knives out trying to I mean, I've told you recently, my husband's in the last two years lost a lot of weight. Yeah, and he's always getting chattered up by women now. And with men, the older they get, it's like a fine wine, right? Whereas women, unfortunately, we tend to go, hey, you look amazing. Thank you, Danny. But I mean, they'll talk to him and I'm standing right ******* there and you're like, in fact, we were away. We're in Spain, and this will make you laugh. I was at the dinner table in a restaurant with my two daughters and with Max, and I caught the eye of this woman in the sort of table over. Very attractive, I'd say, like younger than me, like early 40s. Very sort of sexy looking. She looked really good. And every time I looked at her, I could see she would look away. But she kept looking at Max. She kept looking at him. No. And she was doing while I was sitting there with my children, having dinner with him. And I know it's like a generalization, but she's clearly probably single. She was with another woman. It's crazy. We're women, we're such, like, vicious animals. I could see she didn't have a wedding ring on, all that sort of stuff. Analyze it. Forget the CIA, I can do a digital ****.

Speaker A: Yeah, we were like, nuts.

Speaker B: I love it, but it's like, I am sitting right here. And it was funny because he eventually caught her eye and then he just thought he saw that she was doing it. I mean, and then he's like, Is that woman looking at me? Yes, she is looking at you, Max. And then we laughed about it afterwards, but it was just like, it was so brazen. And then he asked me afterwards, so what do you think is the intent in her head? Does she think that you're going to walk off with the kids and then she's going to come up to me and go and we're going to go off and whatever. And I said, I don't know, maybe you should go ask her. I mean, it was just like, exactly what is in her head that she's going to like, you're going to see her and then later on yeah, I mean, it's just appalling.

Speaker A: I really don't know.

Speaker B: It's bizarre, isn't it?

Speaker A: Women are like that, though. I think men are also like that, but not as intentionally like, oh, she has a boyfriend, I'm going to go ******* steal her from boyfriend. I don't think men are intentionally like that. They're like that girl's hot. She has a boyfriend. Who cares? I'm going to **** her anyway, right? That's what it's like.

Speaker B: I totally agree with that. I totally think whereas women think in this weird, quite ****** up way, that they think, well, I'm hotter than her. Why is that? Why does he have why has she got him? I'm better looking, I'm blah blah, blah, blah, blah, even though no one's better looking than you, Mount. Of course. But that's what's going through their mind, isn't it? Like, how has she nabbed him? Yes, I'm much better. And also what goes through their mind is, how is she single? How is she married? Sorry, how has she got the rock on her finger? And why am I single? And then I say to myself, I'm getting so worked up, I'm breathing. Then I say to myself, well, the reason you are ****** single is because you're a *****.

Speaker A: Well, you're dating married men.

Speaker B: Yeah, and that is a ****** recipe for disaster. Disaster. 100% I've got myself. Right, you take a breath, darling, you're doing amazing. Yeah, but that is genuine story that suddenly came to a head and I just and it happens all the time. Although 100%, you'll be standing there and you'll walk past. I've told you stories of that. And the women are like, oh, he's hot, kind of thing.

Speaker A: Well, what's weird is that I do it too. I'm not innocent, but I'll go to a bar where there's a lot of older men and I'll be like, Men are hot. Are they wearing wedding rings?

Speaker B: Yeah, maybe.

Speaker A: Are they going to come and talk to me anyways? Probably.

Speaker B: You know what I mean?

Speaker A: And I'm like, yeah, I'll take that drink. I'm not going to be like, Sorry, we can't talk, you're married. I'm not going to be a ******* ***** about it.

Speaker B: It's different.

Speaker A: But their intention is there.

Speaker B: Yeah, obviously it is. Of course it is.

Speaker A: And I mean, obviously I have a boyfriend, but I'm not going to be like, no thank you. I'm going to entertain it for a minute.

Speaker B: Entertain what, the drink or the possibility?

Speaker A: That the possibility. I'm not going to act on it. But there's this sexy game that's being played and it's there and whatever is happening could be there and then you leave it. But obviously if I was into it, they would do it 100%.

Speaker B: Yeah, of course they would. Of course they would.

Speaker A: Yeah, and that's what's hard about this. It's like most men are not Max. No, most married men are not Max.

Speaker B: I'm very, very well aware of that and I have lots of conversations with him about it. And he's sometimes, I mean, he knows what men are like. He's a man, and obviously you like women, but he knows how much it would hurt me. It's not an interest to him. But you would hurt somebody, really would. But of course he knows what men are like and men are like that. I mean, they want to have lots of women. Yeah, and the women aren't like that.

Speaker A: I mean, they're micro cheating. They're macro cheating. Because we're making that a thing.

Speaker B: Yes, macro cheating. What was that again?

Speaker A: I don't know. I think we just made that up.

Speaker B: I think we completely made it up.

Speaker A: We completely made it up.

Speaker B: It's just like the macro cheating is actually cheating.

Speaker A: I think that's actually cheating. Or it's just like going as far as you can without actually cheating.

Speaker B: Swapping bodily fluid. That's right. That's your favorite Google. If you are listening, you need to add this term, macro cheating. Yeah.

Speaker A: I'm going to put it on Urban dictionary.

Speaker B: Yeah, it's going to be a thing now. Oh, it should be. If there's a micro, there has to be a macro.

Speaker A: No? 100%. Do you have any facts for us now, today?

Speaker B: I do have some.

Speaker A: Okay, well, let's get into it.

Speaker B: Right, all right. Okay, so my facts. 15 warning signs your partner is cheating on you. Okay.

Speaker A: Warning signs.

Speaker B: This might have helped. This girl, the write in where the boyfriend told her, she could have figured it out before he told her. So these are the I'm scrolling right past them. Right? So the warning signs, they're suddenly unreachable.

Speaker A: Right? So, like, you're not answering your phone.

Speaker B: I think that's a bit hardcore.

Speaker A: That's a bit hardcore.

Speaker B: Unfair. Their schedule, would you say schedule. Schedule changes with no good explanation. I also think that's bollocks because the hamster a lot of people, their friends don't seem as friendly as they used to be. Oh, because they know.

Speaker A: Because their friends know.

Speaker B: That's why intermittent fasting, they have a decrease or increase in libido. 100% agree with this. Yeah, I would know. Because of this fact.

Speaker A: You'd be like, here's why does not want to have sex with me?

Speaker B: Yeah. I'd be like, there's something up here. They're suddenly paying more attention to their appearance. Yeah, I think there's something in that.

Speaker A: They want to be more sexy.

Speaker B: Well, they've got the new thing going on because they think you're like old hash news. You know what I look like and I've got to look good. You know when you first start dating? Oh, they always look fabulous. Susie. No, I'm joking. But I think there's a bit you.

Speaker A: Get waxed more often now.

Speaker B: Do you say this this is a complete departure, but we saining on your sack back and crack.

Speaker A: Your sack back and crack.

Speaker B: Yes, if you get your sack. Yeah, but we're not a sack no, for men. Men getting waxed. Your sack, your back and your crack.

Speaker A: No one's getting our sack waxed.

Speaker B: They do their phone. Yeah, well, Jesus Christ. Less painful than your lips down there. My God. They just hold it down. It's like rough skin. It's like an elephant's tusk.

Speaker A: But they're so they hold them down.

Speaker B: These women know what they're doing.

Speaker A: Balls. Okay.

Speaker B: These waxing ladies know what they're doing anyway. Just going to carry on their phone. Habits change. What does that mean exactly? Do you mean they've changed passwords? That means what are you doing?

Speaker A: Changing the passwords? And then also, I mean, like, do.

Speaker B: People look at the phone? Do you look at Jeff's phone? I don't look at Max's phone.

Speaker A: I really try not to look at his phone.

Speaker B: Why would I look at his phone? I want to look at his phone.

Speaker A: I'm looking at, like, pictures because he never sends me the pictures that he sends of me. That's why I look at his phone. Why don't you send me my cute pictures?

Speaker B: You know what I mean? Yeah, that's nice. They don't speak about your future together anymore. Yeah, I'd say that's a big ****** obvious. Yeah, but then you should be doing more than worrying about them cheating. You should be buggering off.

Speaker A: Buggering off.

Speaker B: What they say and what actually happens does not add up.

Speaker A: Well, how are you going to know? Because you're looking at the phone and their friends aren't talking to you.

Speaker B: They get defensive. Yeah. Obviously. They start giving you more gifts than usual. That'd be nice. I get gifts all the time.

Speaker A: I'd be worried.

Speaker B: I'm always getting gifts. They're suddenly really critical of you. That's a no no. For me. You can't criticize your woman.

Speaker A: You better work out more.

Speaker B: Why aren't you I wouldn't be with the man in the first place if you criticize me. I'm like. Sorry, Osky. You notice unexplained money issues, like buying.

Speaker A: Gifts for someone else. Like he's buying gifts for someone else.

Speaker B: Well, I did have a friend once, have I told you this? Who had on her credit card statement came in and it had this strange entry, which this one I lived in Switzerland, it said Santa Bianet. And she asked me, what do you know what that is? Is that like a spa in Switzerland? I'm like, no, that's a brothel, darling. Oh my God. I said, no, your husband's going to a brothel. Oh, my God. Which is legal in Switzerland, everyone. So keep your nickers on. Right. They accuse you of cheating. Oh.

Speaker A: They're trying to put the blame on you. They're trying to gaslight you.

Speaker B: Is that gaslighting sort of thing Donald Trump would do, isn't it?

Speaker A: Yeah, 100%. They're really you ****** Stormy Daniels, not me.

Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. Melania. It was you, Melania. They're really on top of your schedule. Schedule. Oh.

Speaker A: Because they want to know when you're going to be out of the house.

Speaker B: Oh, yes. Suspicious. You just have a gut feeling. Yes. I think that would be what most women have. That was it. I think those are all a bit ridiculous.

Speaker A: I think the top ones were a little stupid, but the bottom ones, I mean, yeah, I think these are obvious telltale signs. Someone is not interested.

Speaker B: The fact is, and you'll see this if you watch the show on Netflix, I'm pretty sure it's gone up session, is that if you've been with somebody a long time, you know what they do. You know the way they are. If they change all of a sudden and their job or nothing's changed, like they still got the same stressful job, they've still got the things to do. Nothing's changed in your life. You know something's up. And if they don't want to sleep with you, I think that's a pretty good indication. I'm sorry, but that is the key. Right?

Speaker A: 100%.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Do you want to ****? No. You're cheating. It might not be that black and white, but yeah, I think I think yeah, there's points that absolutely my MIC's getting very angry. It is, yeah.

Speaker B: There's points that you will see if you just yeah.

Speaker A: If you if you've been if you've been with your partner long enough, let's say if you've been with your partner two months and they're already cheating get the **** out of there. My God.

Speaker B: Get out of there.

Speaker A: Oh, my God.

Speaker B: Go. I mean, I understand, I think, where the issue the issue of cheating and leaving is much more of an issue when your lives are more enmeshed. If you bought a house together or if you have children, if you have whatever the hell you have together, then it becomes difficult to unravel that. And that leads to one of my TikTok facts. Fines. Fines.

Speaker A: TikTok facts of the week. Yes.

Speaker B: What is that again? This lady in this podcast, Beauty TikTok, cannot remember what it was. I was watching god, as you all know, I'm a scroller. And she said, and you obviously know this, but I'd never heard this before, in order to get over someone, you get under them.

Speaker A: Yeah, you get under them.

Speaker B: Oh, on top of them, I guess, if you want. But the point is there's another. But you just get on with it.

Speaker A: There's always another fish in the sea.

Speaker B: There are lots of fish in the sea. Lots of fishies swimming.

Speaker A: Get great ones.

Speaker B: I love that. Just came to me like that.

Speaker A: And with that, ladies and gentlemen, I think we're done.

Speaker B: **** it.

Speaker A: So, yeah, what do we learn? If you got to get over someone?

Speaker B: Get under them.

Speaker A: Thank you. If you're fishy, you keep swimming.

Speaker B: Yeah. And that macro cheating really isn't a thing.

Speaker A: But we've macro cheating is a thing. Micro cheating might not be a thing. I'm not into micro cheating. Macro cheating, though, I believe.

Speaker B: But we've just invented it.

Speaker A: We've just invented it.

Speaker B: So a genius is by.

Speaker A: All right, everyone, thanks for listening so much. My mic. Thanks for listening, everyone. Don't forget to follow us on our Instagram and TikTok and review this podcast. It's going to be really fun and fresh and brings everyone out.

Speaker B: It does.

Speaker A: Brings the milkshakes and the boys to the yards.

Speaker B: Excellent. See you next time.

Speaker A: See you next time.

Speaker B: Thanks for listening. Thanks so much for listening. Please rate and review this podcast and follow us on social at Sharing My Truth Pod and leave us a voicemail on our to share your stories and experiences with us. We'll see you next time.

Speaker A: Bye bye.

Speaker B: Two, one, up.

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