Speaker A: Welcome to sharing my truth with Mel and Suzie. The uncensored version where we bear it all.
Speaker B: We do. 1234.
Speaker A: Welcome, welcome, welcome back. You're here with Mel and Sue's. This is Sharing My Toothpod, where we share truths, we share life. We don't share spit. Because Mel's against it. And that's fine. It's Susie.
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Speaker A: Oh, she's fabulous.
Speaker B: The fall or the autumn, as we say in my neck of the woods, yes, is upon us or coming.
Speaker A: I'm wearing a cardigan.
Speaker B: You are wearing a cardi. We call it a cardi. Cardi is cute. You are wearing a cardi. Yes. It feels kind of nice. Does it? Do you get sick of the whole summer gear?
Speaker A: I don't get sick of summer. I love my mic just fell. I love the heat, but I love the seasons.
Speaker B: Well, to be fair, it is particularly lovely in Canada, the fall, because it makes you amazing. Cozy up and have a hot cocoa.
Speaker A: With some sexy bear like man.
Speaker B: Really? You know.
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Speaker A: Because fall is coming up and we need some heat around.
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Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. Mel, what are we talking about today, my love?
Speaker B: So today we are talking about the truth about affairs.
Speaker A: Oh, scandalous.
Speaker B: It is. So we have spoken before about cheating in different kinds of ways. We do.
Speaker A: And if you haven't heard our cheating episode, you can go back and listen to it. It's pretty hot and heavy. But we are talking about affairs. And what makes affairs different than, let's just say a random cheating scandal.
Speaker B: Scandalous. Well, yeah, I mean, it brings me to my first point. And to be fair, I'd never really thought about it until we were looking. Doing the research for this episode is the actual word affair. What does that conjure up in your mind?
Speaker A: It kind of just reminds me of like Charles and Diana.
Speaker B: Yes.
Speaker A: Right. Where they had this ******* super scandalous affair and this other woman was involved.
Speaker B: And come now, queen ******* *****.
Speaker A: Queen *****. And **** that *****. And everyone was obviously on Diana's side.
Speaker B: Anyways. That's a whole we know what side you're ******* we know it.
Speaker A: I don't know what you're talking about. But yeah, it was obviously very scandalous. The man is falling in not just that he is having sex with this woman, but he is absolutely 100% in love with Camilla and that they're just going to do this thing without this other person who's involved Diana.
Speaker B: But he was always in love with her, to be fair.
Speaker A: Well, that's what's ****** up, though.
Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, that's the British royal family. That's what we can be here all night if we start talking about that. But in terms of famous affairs that come to mind there's Charles and Diana. There's like Brad and Angelina and the Jennifer aniston triangle.
Speaker A: That was a bad one.
Speaker B: That was bad. And it's still going on to this day. People talk about it. That's kind of wild. I mean, it's kind of wild that they're still know. People still talk about Charles and Diane. Charles, Diana and Given know Diana has sadly passed but I suppose because her son is Harry is so endlessly in the media that that's kind of front and center of people's mind. But I think it's more like what does the word affair mean? And to me personally, it means it's a whole thing. It's basically somebody is having a fine, an extramarital thing because you're generally married or very committed, shall we say, and you're having a fine with somebody else that is obviously sexual but also emotional. And so it's kind of betrayal on this huge level. And there have been a kind of couple of shows in the past few years. There was a famous one called The Affair.
Speaker A: Oh, my mother loves that show.
Speaker B: And I can't and two, the main actors are both British. They play American stupidity.
Speaker A: It is a really good ******* show. I couldn't honestly finish it, but it's a really good show.
Speaker B: I didn't get to the end. But it does show this, that he's married and I want his I think his name is Dominic gorgeous. Yeah, whatever his name is. Holy. And then he had a personal thing in his personal life where he went off for somebody. But that's another whole thing. But the show is about like he's married, he's got children and then he meets this woman not sort of intentionally and then has this huge, passionate, kind of obviously sexual but emotional this whole thing with this woman who's then entangled I mean, it's a whole obviously a very complicated story. But I think the word affair is sort of so different to even though it is essentially cheating, it's different. You think it's this bigger thing. And then I thought to myself, well, there are all these other words like adultery and fling and whatever. And somehow the word fling, we just think, oh, that's just like you had a little thing. However, what didn't last very long.
Speaker A: Yeah, like a spring fling. Like a little summer romance. Yeah, but it lasts a couple of months.
Speaker B: Yeah, or shorter than that. Whatever. But the point is if you're with somebody else, it's still bad. I mean, it's still very hurtful, it's still destructive. But obviously, an affair, to me, conjures up the emotional side. If you actually fall in love with somebody else other than the person you're with, to me it's game over. And that's the whole thing about Charles and Diana. I mean, she was like literally skews my words ****** to start with because he was completely and utterly in love with this other woman. And it had nothing to do with the way she looked, obviously. I mean, you look at pictures of Diana, and people are endlessly doing that, showing pictures of Diana and Camilla and saying, what's his problem? You're like, it's got nothing to do with know he loved this woman. Still obviously know she's the Queen, is that they have so much in common, and they have a connection. And connection is not just about the way somebody looks. It's much deeper than that. The connection, obviously, is physical, emotional, everything else. But in many cases, it's not purely based on the way somebody looks.
Speaker A: No, but I mean, how could Diana ever compare to well, she couldn't compete. I mean, she no, obviously Charles wanted to be a tampon in Camilla. I ******* love Diana. I would watch all those documentaries.
Speaker B: I am amazed at 28 year old that you know that story. I'm actually amazed that anybody outside of the UK knows that story. So wild.
Speaker A: But that's why we love it. It's completely outrageous. But this is how ****** up love ***** you up.
Speaker B: Yeah. I think that you say crazy ******* **** like that. Yeah. Which is completely private, holy and is outrageous in their case. It's outrageous that anybody's listening. And then they take it all out of context, and I don't even want to think about how embarrassing that was.
Speaker A: Holy ****. Can you imagine?
Speaker B: Yeah. No, but I think this thing about why do we think that a flaying and affair adultery. Adultery even sounds very almost sounds religious. Does it sound, like, very adult? It sounds something like medieval. Something like medieval. Medieval. Something that happened. But I mean serious.
Speaker A: And if I was someone who cared about cheating, you know what I mean? If my partner was like, oh, I **** this person. I'm not in love with them. It was kind of a fling. It was something I had to get out of my system. Do you still love me? And obviously it would be very situation dependent, but I probably wouldn't care as much as if they loved them. But you would care also both ways.
Speaker B: Me? Yeah. 100%. You just said situation. I learned a new word this week. Situationship.
Speaker A: Situation.
Speaker B: Yes. Which is like a thing everywhere. It's a made up thing.
Speaker A: It's kind of a made up thing. It could be the situation has made this a thing.
Speaker B: Right, okay. But yeah, I mean, for me, I couldn't handle it. I just couldn't handle it. I'm very impressed that do you think you can? You could or you I definitely would be assuming that you could.
Speaker A: No.
Speaker B: Have you been in a situation in the past where you know you can?
Speaker A: I've never had someone admit to cheating on me.
Speaker B: Right. So how do you know?
Speaker A: I don't know, but I know myself in the way of, like, it is situational, obviously. I don't know my future self and what I would think. But there are I just don't know how it would depend on the woman. A lot of women say that they would rather a man cheat on a woman who's like uglier than they are. I disagree with that.
Speaker B: I've heard that. I heard that last week.
Speaker A: And I would rather my man **** a woman who is hotter than me because I literally would be like I would not understand it otherwise.
Speaker B: That is fascinating. So I heard somebody say that the other week that it would be okay if they were uglier. And you're like what?
Speaker A: I would never understand it otherwise.
Speaker B: What the **** does that mean? Yeah, I mean, completely meaningless. I don't understand that at all. And how it's what, you're going off with somebody? I mean, I guess we're saying the ugly thing because we're going back to Charles and Diana and sorry, it's not fair to Camilla because she isn't ugly. She's just that *****.
Speaker A: I'm just kidding.
Speaker B: She's just not diana, obviously, was this incredibly elegant, beautiful looking woman, and she was just a graceful yeah, well, that's for another discussion. My opinions about that are another you know, of course it has nothing to do with think, you know, for me, it's just betrayal. But if it's emotional, if it's love, that is another whole thing. The whole body fluids exchange thing, which I have a serious problem with, is one thing. But if your partner, the person you trust, love, live with, connect with, yada yada, whatever it is, says, I'm in love with somebody else, I mean, wow.
Speaker A: But let's say they're not. But obviously we're talking about affairs, and that doesn't mean but that most likely means that you're in love with somebody else or you're falling feeling. Exactly.
Speaker B: I think the definition is an affair is something that's probably if the definition I'm just going to and you have a darling definition. So from the Cambridge Dictionary. Terribly sorry. An extramarital affair. So this actually puts it in a context of how you would use the word she discovered that her husband was having an extramarital affair, which I think is hilarious that they've used she and he because we always assume it's the man having an affair. And I would like to add that is very unfair. Many, many women have affairs. Oh, ****. Yeah. It's not just I mean, I've got some statistics for you later. It is proportionally more men. And I think there are some reasons for that, and I think we should talk about that. But extramarital, extramarital affairs. You're assuming you're married, so you're assuming you're already in this deep connection and you're having a thing and you're lying outside of this very important relationship. So that's why the word is so loaded, right, that it's not like you're kind of dating and you're seeing people outside. If you're ******* married or you're living somebody or you have children and you see each other every day, you share the mortgage payments, you share the ******* boring **** and you struggle and blah, blah, blah together. And then one day, your husband or your wife or your partner, whatever, says to you, I've kind of been for the last six months, blah, blah, blah. I mean, crushing does not even cover it.
Speaker A: I mean, it sounds like you just kind of explained why these people cheat. They're having so many obviously just regular things happening in their lives.
Speaker B: Right.
Speaker A: Boring things happening in their lives. Like have to do things in their lives. When someone comes in and possibly strikes an interest with this person and they want to have a little fun and forget their lives a bit, and then they make them feel themselves again, almost.
Speaker B: Oh, yeah. I think there are lots of reasons. I am clearly and you and I are clearly not psychologists. I'm not a psychologist. I'd like to reiterate I have no medical training whatsoever. This is purely my observation.
Speaker A: I do let her look at my ******, though, once in a while, just for her opinion and her *****.
Speaker B: No getting you all excited? No, sorry. I got distracted. No, but ****, what was I talking about? We're like, ******* hell back to the ****.
Speaker A: Five minutes. Still up, doctor, you're not a psychologist.
Speaker B: Yeah, right. Okay, I'm back. Why do people have affairs?
Speaker A: Yes, why?
Speaker B: And it obviously is to do ***** and vaginas, penises and everything else. However, I think people have affairs, like, all sorts of things. You could be going through a period of your life where you're not having a lot of intimacy with your partner. Unfortunately, you could be let's say you have young children and you've become disconnected because you're both very busy. You're working. Also, I know there are many cases of grief. Like, something happens. Like, not the partner dies, but somebody else. Something big happens in your life. And of course, like, you're talking earlier about situationships. Somebody can just come into your life and you can't control that and something can happen. And even though I have very strong feelings about it, I'm obviously acutely aware that people are human beings and **** happens. And the reality is these powerful feelings and urges and whatever take over. It's not a logical situation.
Speaker A: Well, sometimes it's like just convenience, which is a situation pretty much. Right, yeah. Let's say you have an okay relationship with your husband. You've been with him forever, you have children or not, whatever it is, but your life is not what you thought it would be. Now here you come in, you have a new job or let's say whatever. You meet a new person at the gym. They are super nice. They make you feel something. You start ******* at the gym.
Speaker B: Yeah, okay. I mean, it's not a brilliant idea, but yeah. The thing I think is I understand why that happens, but I think you got to be a bit of an *** to do that to your partner. Really?
Speaker A: I don't disagree with you, but obviously these things happen way more than I think we think they do.
Speaker B: Oh, my God, they're happening all the time. I remember years and years ago, a friend of mine was telling me and this is when I had very young children. She had very young children, and she was telling me about this woman that she knew who had just had twins or they didn't just have twins, they were like two or something. She'd gone back to work and she was not unhappy in her marriage, but she was ******* this guy at work, but literally at work, in the store cup or whatever the ****, the stationery cupboard, whatever the **** the cupboard is. Some cupboard. She was exactly the facts. We know. I'm not that ******* well, actually, but they were literally doing it wherever I guess, for whatever reason. It was thrilling. It's exciting. Of course. You're a human being. These things can happen. But the ******* fallout, the mess, the absolute ******* devastation, especially in her case, when she had a husband, she had two young children, was humongous. Forget the ******* rocket landing on Mars. It was just the whole thing blew up. I mean, it's just a ******* mess.
Speaker A: Sometimes I'm just like, is that worse than having this person literally feel like less of a person for most of their lives because they're not doing anything joyful, especially sexually?
Speaker B: No, I would agree with that. However, I think that generally, if you're in a relationship, you know the way you're feeling, right? You've probably been feeling a certain way for a certain period of time, and generally you probably are just ignoring that feeling. And what happens is you keep ignoring it. You keep ignoring it, keep shoving it under the carpet, and then you get into a situation where you meet somebody and they just blow your mind, and then **** happens, and that's probably more often than not what happens. People having affairs are not actually *******, bad people. There are many people who are ******** and just have affairs because they're ******* ******** and they don't care about the people they hurt. But I would say a lot of situations are not that. They're just that people know there's an issue. They know they're feeling something's wrong, something's off, they're not happy. Whatever life gets in the way, they don't deal with it. They keep shoving it under the carpet, and one day it blows up, and it will blow up spectacularly in the sense that you'll meet somebody and you will not be able to control yourself. And then the whole thing is just this kind of snowballed train wreck that can happen. And of course, lots of people go off and can go off and marry that person. It can be successful. That's what my father went off, had an affair after many, many affairs, married my step current stepmother is the person he had an affair with. And that does happen a lot, right? But that doesn't mean what it leaves behind. And I think it also is dependent on how the person who has the affair kind of deals with it once it's found out. Because generally, I think that's the other connotation of affair is that you're not truthful and you're found out as opposed to you own up to it.
Speaker A: I don't know what the statistics what's better, though, if they are truthful and still going to hurt your ******* feelings and still going to make a whole ******* big deal about it? Or if they lie and you might never know.
Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I agree with that. I don't have an answer that I mean, it's interesting. I read this article this week which was about in a British newspaper about a couple that had been married for, like, 27 years, and the woman thought they were happy. And then all of a sudden one day, I think it was an anniversary or something, the husband said, I've never loved you. I've never been happy. I've had enough, sort of thing. And she's just like, what the ****? And she's like immediately your first question is, is there somebody else? And he says, no. And then he kind of says, no. And then they sort of live in the same house for a bit because where are you going to go? And then he eventually moves out and then, hey ho. A few months later, he's got another partner. And you're just like, that was pretty ******* quick. I can think of personal situations where that's happened, where people have died or people have moved on and then you're like, they've moved on very quick. I mean, literally within a month. And you know that that person's been there. I don't know the answer because it's human and we're all very complicated and messy and it's very difficult. I just think that I would hope in my case, and I'm only saying this from my personal viewpoint is if it were me, I would prefer to know and to move on and to kind of deal with my life.
Speaker A: But even if you think that you're happy?
Speaker B: Well, yeah, that's a good question.
Speaker A: Very hard because it's like that's a very good question. It's like if you're not ******* hurting.
Speaker B: Them oh, I see. If you know what I mean, doing it. And then they never know. Yeah, which is probably the case. I would think for most it's a bit of most affairs is obviously don't know.
Speaker A: It's the hardest thing is keeping the secret, I think, for most people who are having affairs because they're like a lot of people can't live with secrets.
Speaker B: Yeah, well, it changes your behavior. I think the problem is the way you behave. I mean, my dad never told my mum I think I've said this before. My mum found a receipt for something and I've told this before, it was for a fridge that she didn't own, which is pretty random, very unglamorous and totally not sexy. So she found out that way and this whole chain of terrible events kind of ensued. But yeah, I think it does change obviously it changes the way you behave because you're going to be saying, oh, I'm working late and you're not working late. And then there's the whole sexual thing. I always say I would know because I'd be like, my husband's very always kind of like, yeah, he's kind of in my face. If you like, in that respect, I'd be like, what's going on? What's wrong? Why are you but then I guess if you don't have that relationship, then you're not going to know. And if you're very far down the road of kind of living this very, like, we're fine. And I do think there are a lot of people who are kind of fine. They're not happy, but they're not unhappy and they're just plodding along because life is ******* hard.
Speaker A: But imagine someone having not even I mean, obviously we're talking about affairs, but if someone has cheated on their wife or their husband and is like, I know what sex is again, I don't want this specific person, I'm not in love with this person. But now I finally like, I found something that my person couldn't give me and now I am a happier person. I can go back again to being a good dad, a good husband, until I have to go do it again. Well, look, what's very hard about it.
Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, there are couples that do somebody cheats or somebody has an affair and they're able to say, it was kind of a moment, it happened for whatever reason, and they can move on. And as far as I'm concerned, that is their business. They should do what is right for them. And if that is the case, then they should if they can heal those scars, then great. And they can go on and actually make it better and not live in this endless, I don't trust you, then good for them. And as far as I'm concerned, that is their 100% their business. Does that happen? Of course it happens. Does that happen a lot? Yeah, of course it does. And does it happen for men and women? And I shall just tell you, as I'm talking about men and women, the statistics. So this is from relationshipadvice co. I will link it in the blog and it says that in the US, men are more likely than men to cheat on their spouses. So this men are more likely than men. What? What did I say?
Speaker A: I think men were more likely to.
Speaker B: Men I don't know what I'm talking about. Men are more likely than women got it. Sorry. To cheat on their spouses. So 23% of married men have had extramarital sex. 12% of married women have had extramarital sex. So arguably, I mean, you'd love to know how are they getting these figures? How the hell do they people are.
Speaker A: Just giving up this information for fun.
Speaker B: So this is another publications roughly the same 20% men, 13% women among individuals over the age over the age of 80, I think over the age of 80 ******* out. 24% of men and 6% of women reported instances of infidelity in the 60s age bracket. 24% of men and 16% of women in the age bracket of 18 to 29. 10% of men and 11% of women. Wow. And that actually brings me on to a point that I've been thinking about recently, is that I guess in theory it gets worse the older you get and the more you've been together. But I do actually think and this might be a bit controversial, but as women get older, because there's so much going on with your body and we're only really now talking much more mainstream about the perimenopause menopause, stuff like that, your body changes and I'm not even really there yet, but your body changes. And I'm not just talking physically on the outside, like on the inside, the way you feel. And women have all these symptoms and some women don't. Some women do, and some men want sex and some women don't. But they're in a very funny space. And so I think that combined often with having been together with a man or a partner for very many years could actually create a lot of problems as to why people might want to have affairs. And obviously if you've been married for many, many decades, then, yeah, the chances are that it isn't as exciting as it was at the beginning. And has something happened in your life to make you think, oh my God, I'm missing out. I want to have this thing, whatever this thing is. The problem is people go off in search of this thing, or this thing comes to them and they sort of live it and then it's done. And they're like, okay, that was nice, but it wasn't worth blowing my life up for. But that's the problem.
Speaker A: Are you blowing your life up? I think there is this thing about affairs and about cheating that we put so much obviously there's the betrayal thing, but why do we think it is such a betrayal in the first place? I think we put such a pressure on there's just one person in your ******* life. You should never hurt them. You should never cheat on them. It's such a toxic thing that we are putting on people because people make mistakes and not even that. But I don't believe that there is one soulmate and I've said this before, one soulmate for one person. I do not believe that exists. There are many people who you will connect with in your life, sexually and otherwise, and that's okay. And I find that if you are open. And if you're a couple who is open to experimenting on these wishes of each other and are okay with just like letting that person feel that thing that they want to experience, it's going to make for a possibly happier relationship if you're open to it. But the fact is that we literally put so much pressure on you should not cheat. You shouldn't even look at another person. How dare you even talk to another person? Obviously, I know that's not what you're saying, but it's like I find that there's a lot of pressure that we're putting on couples.
Speaker B: There is a lot of pressure and there are some people who are know literally can't talk to another man or they would get super upset if somebody flirted with you or stuff like that. And that's another issue in terms and I know people like that. That isn't my case. If it happens to myself or Max, we laugh, we have a good laugh about it. It's funny. Yeah. And you just go, okay, whatever. And it's just a funny situation. But I think, yes, society does put a lot of pressure on people. And this idea of marriage and marriage, I accept, is not for everyone. And I understand what you're saying about openness. We've had this conversation many, many times. But I think it's very rare that you get a couple where both and whoever is in that couple where both people in that couple are of the same or the mindset that you are, if you're lucky and you can find somebody like that, great. But I think that's rare. It's often one person that feels that way and the other person doesn't. And it's hard because I've seen it from many, many times where people said, okay, let's be open, or they had affairs or they're swingers, or whatever it is. And then they're saying it's just because they want something more than they have. They're not satisfied. And then they end up going off with the other person, even if it was open. That's quite possible. You have an open relationship. You're in love with the nesting partner, right. And you have other partners. What happens if you go off with the other partner? I mean, you can say, oh, well, they were going to go off anyway, but if you've established a life with the partner and you've been with them 510, 1520 years, that's not an easy thing. No. Yeah.
Speaker A: And I think those are sometimes assumptions that we make about people who like to swing. I don't know people who like to swing, but I don't think they're being open with me about it. You know what I mean? I think there is a lot of that community is a lot more than we think they are.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: And I think the people who like to have maybe are more polyamorous or whatever you want to call them. There are special connections that you make, especially sexual. Ones. And if you want to just have those connections and if you do want to get married, let's say obviously because we're talking about marriage, you want to get married and then you also want to have affairs inside. But it's consensual with your partner and you talk about it and you're not going to leave your partner because it's your partner and they're okay with it and it's kind of like what we're talking about. It might be also cuckholding. Right, yeah, because that could be a part of it.
Speaker B: And it's fun. The last episode.
Speaker A: Exactly. There's a whole thing with it, with Kinks, with Fetishes, like the polyamorous community, with swinging. I mean, there's a whole load of things that you could actually be a part of that are not. And they're healthy because they're consensual and they're okay. And you can live your life with these and with your partner and not hurting anyone. And even if you have kids because you're not obviously bringing the kids knowledge into it or confusing them or anything like that. So it's like there are ways to do it. Obviously doing it unconsensually is not great. But again, there's the pressure that we put on people that I just don't believe we need to.
Speaker B: Look, I know what you're saying and I'm sure a lot of our listeners would connect with. What I'm about to say is that there are a lot of people who are married or with one partner who are ******* miserable, have been for a very long time, who started the relationship as one thing, perhaps were in love. I mean, whether they were or not, had a strong connection, whatever that connection was, decided to get married or live together, have children, whatever form a life, were very happy. And along the way, a whole myriad of things have happened, whether that is financial pressures, pressures of life, family pressures, having children, being frustrated with what you've achieved in life, whatever it is. There are a myriad of things that happen in life that can affect the initial kind of almost free sense you have in a relationship where you're just having fun and you're having sex and you're loving each other and you're having a great time, you're dating and then of course, you start to live and life sets in. And I think for a lot of people, they can be ******* miserable. They start with this idea that also they love this person, but then as life goes along, that person doesn't fulfill them, not just sexually, doesn't fulfill them emotionally, doesn't fulfill them in what they need in life. Or you start at one point, and I don't mean this in a patronizing way at all, but you start and I was 28. I just had my weding anniversary. I was 28 when I got married. And you start out with one. How could I possibly know at 28 what I want when I'm 50 or where I'm going to end up. So you start with this one sort of idea, this one connection with somebody, this love, this whatever, and then life happens. And for me personally, I'm lucky I met somebody that I connect with. I believe in him, he believes in me, and we've built on that. Has it been a smooth? Of course it hasn't. If any married couple or somebody who's been together for a long time tells you that it's been totally smooth sailing, they are lying to you. That is absolute bullshit. You have to work at it. But I think a lot of things happen in relationships. People get let down. Like, they start out with somebody and they think this is okay, that you don't fulfill or you don't do all these things, or you're not all these things. To me, whatever. As you start out, you're in love. And then as times goes on, you can resent the very things, those very things. You can start to resent it, and then it causes masses of problems. And I've seen that many times, and that's what I'm saying. And you're talking about being open. Is that a solution? I think from my point of view, I think it could be a solution for some people, 100%. And if that works for you and you've figured it out and as a couple or a polyamorous group should we call it group?
Speaker A: Sure.
Speaker B: If you've worked it out and it works for you and you're all happy and it's really be joyous. No, but you're living a fulfilling life. Great.
Speaker A: I love it.
Speaker B: But I think the amount of people where that isn't the case for the situation I was talking about. You get married, you're in a couple, you're going along all these years, you're miserable, or you think, okay, solution is that we have affairs. I think both of those alert. I don't think either of those necessarily always work out. I just think it is incredibly complicated and incredibly difficult. But the problem is when people have affairs to try and come back from. That is so momentously huge. If you know about it, yeah. If you don't know, then that's another whole thing. But if you have found out and that's the worst the worst possible thing is if the person doesn't even tell you and you find out somebody telling you, or the fridge receipt or whatever the hell it is ******* wild or whatever it is, somebody sees you. I remember actually, not long ago, max was at a lunch thing, a business thing. He was in a restaurant sorry. Having lunch. It was a business lunch. And he saw this guy that he thought he thought, I know that guy. And he was with this woman who looked like half his age, right? And then he was like, Why do.
Speaker A: I know that guy?
Speaker B: Why don't that guy? And then he recognized John Tory. No, he knew the guy. Because it's somebody it's not like a friend but it's somebody we knew. We know their children. And then the man, he was touching this woman. She clearly and he knew the wife. So he's like that is not his wife.
Speaker A: That is warfare.
Speaker B: Yeah. Or whatever the **** that is. And you see that a lot and it's hard. And then this is acquaintance, this isn't a friend. So there's nothing you can do. You can't get involved. Maybe the wife knows. I have no idea. But I mean, you see that a lot. That's hard. Does he doing that behind her back. And this guy was a bit of ****. So I would assume he was doing a lot of it behind his back. Her back.
Speaker A: Sorry, but I worked in the service industry for a very long time at a place where a lot of that **** ******* happened right in the financial district and like clearly not the wife. A lot of those business boys, they are bad boys.
Speaker B: They're bad boys.
Speaker A: They are sexy boys, but they are bad. And, I mean, I had a lot of them hit on me and try to, of course, **** me and want to take me out. And not that I didn't want to, but, I mean, you know that these men have wives and they're either wearing their ring or they hide their ring or you see them with their wife on the weekend, let's say, and not the weekday. It's wild. It's a wild little world out there. And obviously I'm talking about men. Not obviously it's all men. It's also women doing this. But yes, it is crazy. The fact that I think people do this because they're unhappy. That is the main that you're hiding it. You're doing it because you're unhappy, I would assume.
Speaker B: I mean, you're unhappy or you're maybe in their case in a very stressful job. They're finding a release, a sexual release. They're finding release somewhere else. But they are, at the end of the day, being really unfair to their wives. If they're not happy then and they're doing it repeatedly. I do think that's why this word affair is kind of loaded because you think of like this one great love affair, right, that you've gone off and had this affair with this person. Well, that is not always the case. Sometimes it's multiple affairs and it's incredibly hurtful. This sounds like if you're sort of going and meeting girls in bars or having quick short flings with them, you're doing this on a serial level, right? You know there's ******* something wrong. You're either doing this because you're an ******* and you want your cake and eat it or an asset. An asset.
Speaker A: How lovely.
Speaker B: You're doing it because you want your cake and eat it. Which I think are into the case of many men and many women that they want everything. And that is not fair to the partner if the partner is living something else, right? If you're basically lying all the time, then kind of what's the point? But there is no circumstance if you are the person who's been hurt where an affair is easy and you're not going to get hurt. It's awful. But it does lead on to a point we've talked about Charles and Diana and then there's people like famous people like Brad and Angelina and people like that. And people will you know, if the thing started with an affair, like sort of the Brad and Angelina thing and then that really did spectacularly blow up on them even though they were the affairees on Jennifer, as it were. Yes, they had the affair on Jennifer Aniston. Yes. And then their marriage has just spectacularly ******* combusted imploded. And some people would say, oh well, that's because it started on affair because of an affair. And you're like, well that's bollocks. I mean, if you go back to the Charles and Diana, it depends on the situation. And there are people where that isn't the case. And maybe like you said, it's because you were with the wrong person and you met the other person. It's kind of unfortunate how you kind of met the person and you stayed with them and you didn't have affairs after that. I mean it really does depend that is situation.
Speaker A: How ridiculous would it be if Prince or King Charles? King Charles? Pardon me?
Speaker B: King. King. He's your king too. He's my king twice.
Speaker A: If King Charles and Camilla imagine if they divorced after all mean people would.
Speaker B: Flip in the honestly, no, it wouldn't.
Speaker A: But that's also the thing.
Speaker B: But I really don't think that's ever going to happen. But I think people would go ******* crazy in the UK. They would go ******* crazy because it's taken such a long time to go hang on a second. A for them they got buried and everyone was still going even though it was years and years after. However many years after. And then now she was Queen consul and then now she's queen. There are still so many people are like, this is outrageous. And you're like, I think we need to get over this. The world is imploding inflation. There are ******* wars. We need to get over this. It really is. I really don't care. But that's the thing about humanity is that you have an affair because that's a feel you're going with a very strong connection feeling and then that goes wrong and of course it goes wrong. And then you could go and move on to the next mean so I've got here Susie stories. This is from the wonderful Buzfeed.
Speaker A: Oh, you know, we love a Buzfeed article. Who doesn't?
Speaker B: So this first one's actually quite interesting because I know people where this has happened. So this is called the unsympathetic husband. Sorry men are getting a bit of a bad rap. But my mom had died and my husband was extremely unsupportive of everything, including responsibilities. That came after her death. Imagine being at the lowest of the low and the person who's supposed to be your biggest support does everything to tear you down. So I found comfort elsewhere and that was on my ex's. Big ****.
Speaker A: I love it.
Speaker B: And she says, I regret nothing. I regret nothing. And you shouldn't, honey bunny. And of course, that's emotion, hugely emotional thing. I don't know this man. Obviously, we don't know any of do you know this man? We don't know any of these people. So it's very unfair to judge. But the point is that, yeah, I mean, for ****'* sake, if somebody can't.
Speaker A: Support you affairs I mean, this is also a thing where affairs can also be revenge. Which we can get into right now at this next story.
Speaker B: Revenge. Revenge.
Speaker A: I caught my husband sleeping with sex workers. It was a few years ago. When he was doing it, he kept lying about things I already knew the answers to. I wanted honesty and didn't get it. I found myself curious, wanting justice and.
Speaker B: Wanting to feel loved again.
Speaker A: I had affair with great sex and chemistry that showed me I deserved much more. Emotionally, I'm not proud, but my affair helped me find myself again after infidelity.
Speaker B: Look, I mean, these are like very specific situations where there was something deeply wrong to begin with. And I hope for these people they are not together anymore because they really probably shouldn't be. Here's another one.
Speaker A: I actually love these.
Speaker B: Yeah, the mum and the grad school professor. Yes. And we've all heard we've known friends where this kind of thing has happened. Sure.
Speaker A: What friends are you talking about?
Speaker B: A lot of friends who've got into all sorts of situations, actually. So this one's, I got pregnant at 16 and later married my child's father at 21. I don't know somebody in that well, actually, I do know somebody got pregnant at 16. But anyway, never mind. At 24, I went to grad school and totally had the hots. My older professor, he would talk to me during stressful periods and was very accommodating about my situation. One night he was looking over an assignment and looking over an assignment of mine and something just flipped. He was seemingly innocent at first, but then it felt hot and steamy. Really? Funny thing was, it made my sex life and my husband that much better. After two years, I finally felt ready to end it and I found out I was pregnant. I told both partners separately and they agreed to be there no matter what.
Speaker A: Oh, my God.
Speaker B: I ended up working things out with my husband. Funny thing is, it's been three years and I still don't know who the real father is.
Speaker A: Oh my God. That is ******* crazy.
Speaker B: That is wild. And kudos to those men. ******* because well, I couldn't handle that. But whatever. I mean, I guess she was very young. I mean, like I said, people aren't probably not bad people. Like the guys you're talking about, the bar. They're dickheads. But there are lots of people. They're also nice, and I honestly kind.
Speaker A: Of feel bad for them. Do you know what I mean? These men are under so much stress and pressure and also pressure to perform not only in their jobs, but I'm sure at home, being a good dad and bringing home that much more money.
Speaker B: There'S an element of that. I wouldn't feel that sorry for that.
Speaker A: All right, but.
Speaker B: This is a funny one. Can I read it?
Speaker A: The husband on Craigslist. Three months after giving birth to our son, my husband complained he wasn't getting enough. Poor guy. I was a first time mom and learning how to be a mother, a wife, and work full time, all while recovering from a C section. Mel, you know all about that.
Speaker B: I do.
Speaker A: I found out a few weeks later that on his lunch break from work, he met a random woman on Craigslist for some fun oral. Some oral fun.
Speaker B: Thank you.
Speaker A: Some oral fun. We are currently counseling, but will most likely be divorcing.
Speaker B: So my first question yes? I didn't realize what the **** is on Craigslist? I thought you found, like, builders or plumbers. Oh, my God.
Speaker A: No, babe, you can find anything on Craigslist.
Speaker B: Really? Yes. Literally, I would like oral. And there'll be somebody on there?
Speaker A: Yes. It's like the personal why would you do that?
Speaker B: Why wouldn't you be on all these app dating apps? Why the **** would you go? Probably old. Yeah. Okay. I'm getting excited.
Speaker A: He's on ******* Craigslist.
Speaker B: Is that still a thing? Craigslist?
Speaker A: Yeah, I think I've had my apartment there.
Speaker B: Really?
Speaker A: Yes.
Speaker B: I don't think I've ever found anything on Craigslist.
Speaker A: I may be putting the mic down.
Speaker B: And you want to checking it out.
Speaker A: Little lick ****.
Speaker B: Yeah, little lick ****. No, I think I'm fine. All right. The affair with a motive. Yes, I had an affair because my partner always said the only reason I would ever leave you would be if you cheated on me. Oh, my God. I'd been trying to driving away for years, but stuck around for our child's sake. Wow. I was hopeful that it would work and he'd finally let me go, but I still wound up having to walk out myself after he found out. My question really here is why are you with these people? I don't understand.
Speaker A: Maybe leave. The only reason I would ever leave you like you're literally waiting for this person to leave even though you have a child and this child needs you. It sounds like a lot, to be honest. Oh, wait, can I read this one? This is maybe the last one because.
Speaker B: We are going to all I know exactly the one you want to read.
Speaker A: The closeted lesbian and the hot boss.
Speaker B: Mads. Okay, gone then.
Speaker A: Ready? I had an affair five months into my marriage.
Speaker B: Woof. I grew up in a small Southern.
Speaker A: Town with very little LGBTQ representation. I rushed into the marriage with my husband, who is great, but has an extremely overbearing family. I then proceeded to fall in love.
Speaker B: With my boss from the moment I laid eyes on her when I began a new job. Oh, thank you for that.
Speaker A: I hurt a really great guy in the process. However, I do not regret the confidence in who I am now that I know I am a lesbian. I also got out of this situation with this family that could have turned out to be extremely toxic. Hashtag proud, hashtag lesbian, hashtag LGBTQ plus.
Speaker B: Very good. Thank you. Stacey. I mean, that obviously is a specific situation that you've basically had the effects you shouldn't have been in the marriage in the first place. And unfortunately, you found out because you met somebody who's knocked your socks off. Susie quite literally. And that is a very specific situation. I don't know. I mean, that's the point, is sometimes it is a very specific situation. It doesn't make it any less painful. But she's obviously not a bad person. She's just found out a different way. Who. She took her a while to find out who she was. Right. She's laughing at me. She's ******* laughing at me.
Speaker A: I think, just let lesbians be lesbians and then they won't have to have affairs.
Speaker B: Mel well, it's probably helpful if they don't marry a man to start with.
Speaker A: They didn't know.
Speaker B: That's key. That's a key element.
Speaker A: It's Southern America. Southern know they think lesbians are false.
Speaker B: Right, okay. Right. Yeah. Okay. Well, we'll go with that. So where are we ending up on Miss Susie on this thing about affairs?
Speaker A: I don't know.
Speaker B: So this is a thing I do have to say. So this is a survey from Verywomind.com. Okay. Yes. So in a study of 495 people, it revealed that there are eight key reasons for affairs.
Speaker A: What are the eight?
Speaker B: Anger. Anger, low self esteem, lack of love, low commitment, need for variety, neglect, sexual desire and circumstance. And I would wholly agree with all of that. I don't know about the anger. Bit. Angry at what anger?
Speaker A: That's like the first one. Or are these not in any particular order?
Speaker B: I don't know if they're in any particular order.
Speaker A: See, I don't think anger would be like the, hey, I'm going to get *******. I'm angry. I mean, maybe I'm angry at my partner, so I'm going to **** another guy.
Speaker B: I guess maybe you could be angry and frustrated at your situation.
Speaker A: And horny. So it's a whole wing bang. Thank you, ma'am.
Speaker B: And horny. And sometimes, I guess, that's the only way to deal with the situation. I'm just trying to see does it have it in any specific order? It's a very interesting question. Types of affairs. I mean, gosh, there's lots of information here. Look, at the end of the day, we can try and rationalize something that is completely irrational. An affair is not a logical thing. It is a human emotion reaction, whatever connection, it's not logical. And they happen because it's not logical. So we can be as logical as we like about them, but it's not logical. I try not to say logical again. Yeah.
Speaker A: I try not to be logical in any aspect of my life.
Speaker B: Right. We see. I like a bit of logic. I know.
Speaker A: That's why we work so well together.
Speaker B: I like logic. I like organization, and I understand why they happen. But if it happened to me, I'd be on the floor. Susie. Yeah. I'd be a weeping mess. And look, I think the only thing I can say, and I say this from the privileged point of view of somebody who comes from a long standing relationship that works really well is I just think, and I guess I'm lucky that connection is good. That relationship is good, is you have to ******* talk to each other and you have to continuously talk to each other. And let me tell you, sometimes you don't like each other. There are periods that you don't right. For whatever reason, not like, I think that's a bit strong. You're like, you're annoying me, or you're irritating me, or you're in a period of your life where you're going through something, whatever that is, positive or negative, you're just this change. Right? Yeah. And you change, obviously. Or you evolve because we've said that. I don't like the word change, but you evolve as a human being. And of course, as you evolve, you kind of want or you go down a different road. But I think if you essentially start out as a couple with the same values, I don't think you wildly go off the path. But you have to ****** talk to each other. So if there is an issue, talk to each other. I do understand, though. See, I'm stopping you from speaking. No, it's fine. Is that sometimes people can't they find that really, really difficult and they keep going for years and years and years without saying anything, and it just gets worse.
Speaker A: I think people are afraid gets to talk because they're afraid of the answers that their other person is going to give them. And not even just that, but they're afraid. Like people are afraid of change. And talking creates change. If you don't talk, you don't ******* change anything.
Speaker B: Well, if you don't talk, you don't know.
Speaker A: Exactly. Ignorance is bliss, baby.
Speaker B: Yeah. No, I do agree with that. I do think that if you are like I said earlier in the conversation, there are a lot of people who are not happy but not unhappy. They're sort of in this middle kind of fuz. They just live in this fuz. Fuz fuzzy. That sounds nice. Well, it sort of does. I think lots of people are in that. And there's lots of fuzz in all areas of their life. They're not happy with their job. They're not happy with their partner, they're not happy with their situation in life. They're not happy with the car they're driving, happy with the house, whatever the **** it is, all the ******* things. Because it takes a lot to kind of figure out what you want, and a lot of people don't. And so if that one thing that you're sort of okay with, maybe is your relationship, and then, like you say, that person says, actually, you say to each other, actually we don't want to be together, then the whole thing goes to **** like you think is very hard to deal with. And then if you have kids and family and stuff, it's very, very difficult.
Speaker A: I think relationships are hard. If you can make it easy on yourself, just be sure of who you're marrying and why you're marrying them. I think that's also the biggest thing. I think people get married way too ******* quick, in my personal opinion. And just make sure that that person knows who you are and you know who that person is and how. Make sure that they can work their.
Speaker B: **** to make what if they don't have a **** and they have a ******?
Speaker A: Make sure that they can make you come.
Speaker B: That's it. Well, thanks, Susie.
Speaker A: Make sure that they can work that *****.
Speaker B: Very good. It's very good. All that strap on. Very good. Yes. See, I added that in there. Yeah. What was that? It is the biggest decision you will ever make. I've said that to you before.
Speaker A: You don't get married, you don't have an affair.
Speaker B: Doesn't ******* work like that. But it is a huge decision to be with one person for the rest of your life, whether you're married or not. It is a massive decision. And please, everyone from me, try and get it right. Try and get it right the first time.
Speaker A: But if you don't get it right the first time, there's always another chance.
Speaker B: There's always an affair.
Speaker A: There's always an affair, darling. Don't forget to share your affair stories with us, guys. Whether it's your parents, your sister, your wife, your boss. Who cares? Who cares?
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: Just tell us.
Speaker B: And you can tell Susie what you think about Charles and Camilla. **** that. Because she's ******* *****. Yeah. Anyway, she has very strong opinions about this, which is kind of funny from somebody of your age.
Speaker A: I just love Diana.
Speaker B: I think she's a ******* beautiful human being.
Speaker A: And how dare you hurt someone like that?
Speaker B: Wow.
Speaker A: You know what I mean?
Speaker B: I think you watched The Crown too intensely.
Speaker A: Okay, everyone, that's I think it for us.
Speaker B: Darlings, we will see you again soon.
Speaker A: And don't forget to follow us on socials at Share My Truth Pod. We'll see you there.
Speaker B: Thanks for listening. Bye.
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Speaker A: Bye bye. Three, two, one. Ye